June 13, 1972

LIB

Grant Deachman

Liberal

Mr. Deachman:

This yard was the only one in Canada capable of handling pieces of steel of the required size. The problem of shipping this steel to British Columbia and assembling the pieces on the campus of the University of British Columbia was enormous. The federal contribution to this cyclotron is $23,300,000. This is one of the three meson factories now under construction in the world; the others are at the Swiss Institute for Nuclear Research near Zurich, and the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory in New Mexico. Less powerful accelerators for somewhat similar purposes are being constructed at Columbia University in New York, at the European Centre for Nuclear Research at Geneva, and in the U.S.S.R.

When TRIUMF is completed and in operation, the experimental work there will combine scientists of many disciplines-physicists, chemists, biologists, therapists, metallurgists and others-in a common new research facility that will be unique in the world. It should also be stressed that TRIUMF will welcome research workers from all across Canada. Indeed, proposals for use of the facility have already been received from the provinces of Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, Newfoundland as well as the neighbouring province of Alberta.

I wish also to refer, Sir, to some other projects of interest which are under construction or just recently completed on that campus. Through the agency of Central Mortgage and Housing during the years 1970 and 1971, loans have been made for the construction of new student residential towers in the amount of $12 million. To an increasing extent students are being housed on the campus. This is made possible through the resources of CMHC.

I refer, also, to a new and very interesting project in which I recently played a small part.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PC

Robert Lorne Stanfield (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Stanfield:

We do not want to embarrass the hon. member, but he might appreciate a little applause.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Grant Deachman

Liberal

Mr. Deachman:

Mr. Speaker, on May 20 I had the pleasure of going to the University of British Columbia with a cheque in my pocket for $2,500,000.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PC

Robert Lorne Stanfield (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Stanfield:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Grant Deachman

Liberal

Mr. Deachman:

This was part of the $10 million contribution of the federal government to the B.C. centennial celebration of 1971.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PC

Robert Lorne Stanfield (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Stanfield:

Does the government issue all its cheques in B.C.?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Grant Deachman

Liberal

Mr. Deachman:

I had the pleasure of carrying this one, sir. The $2,500,000 was given for the construction of a museum on the campus of the University of British Columbia. It will be a showcase for the university's collection of artifacts and northwest coast Indian art. The archaeological collection contains 70,000 pieces-

(Mr. Deachman.]

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PC

Robert Lorne Stanfield (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Stanfield:

The museum will be a good place to bury the remains of the Liberal party.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Grant Deachman

Liberal

Mr. Deachman:

-mostly from B.C. sites, which are important to the study of North American pre-history and which, incidentally, are not now being displayed, most of them being stored in boxes. The northwest Indian art collection of 10,000 items includes the most comprehensive Kwakiutl collection of any museum of the world. A major part of the museum's art collection will be donated by Walter Koerner of Vancouver, a member of the board of governors of the university and former board chairman.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PC

Robert Lorne Stanfield (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Stanfield:

The museum would be a good place to house the artifacts of the Liberal party.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Grant Deachman

Liberal

Mr. Deachman:

Since he came to Canada from Czechoslovakia in 1938, Mr. Koerner has been collecting master-works to illustrate the achievements of tribal art. These collections altogether will make this museum which is to be constructed on the university campus one of the most outstanding archaeological museums in Canada.

Sir, if time permitted I would describe the impact on the University of British Columbia of a number of national health grants, of grants made by the Fitness and Amateur Sports Council, of grants in the field of architecture made by Central Housing and Mortgage Corporation, and of aid extended by agencies such as the Canada Council which has contributed much to the development of scholars, teachers and people from all walks of life at my university.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

An hon. Member:

And Members of Parliament.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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LIB

Grant Deachman

Liberal

Mr. Deachman:

I include Members of Parliament because there are some in this chamber tonight who are graduates of that university.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink
LIB

Grant Deachman

Liberal

Mr. Deachman:

In closing, Mr. Speaker, may I say something that every member of this House knows who represents a constituency in which there is a university, teaching institution or institution of higher learning. Sometimes we are prone to forget the impressive impact of federal spending in the shaping of the role of universities in Canada and in the shaping of men and women who attend those universities and who want to teach and to learn.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Hon. Hugh ]ohn Flemming (Carleton-Charlotte): Mr. Speaker, I appreciate this opportunity, even though only a few minutes remain, to take part in the debate on the budget. I have always felt it a great privilege to be given the chance to speak on the budget. In the budget debate, of course, we learn the ways and means by which the minister proposes to tax people and to achieve those objectives which the government thinks are desirable. I have always felt that it is a great privilege to speak in a debate like this, because if there are things you do not like about the budget you can pick them out and tell the minister what you think.

I congratulate the minister for the budget speech he made and trust that some of the objectives he has set for this government will be met. He said that it was his aim and objective to bring down a budget that would provide more jobs. Those words did not fall on deaf ears so far as I am concerned. Everyone in the chamber applauded his statement. We all hope, trust and pray that the minister's objectives in that respect will be realized.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PC

Thomas Miller Bell (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Progressive Conservative Party)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Bell:

We want more jobs.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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PC

Hugh John Flemming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Flemming:

However, I have some misgivings about the budget; they have arisen principally because I have found it is difficult to find people who will do certain jobs which require to be done. I believe that many jobs are available which could furnish employment but that people are not anxious to take them. Forestry work is a case in point. To my knowledge, people can earn an excellent wage by working in the woods and cutting trees into logs which in turn are processed into lumber. The lumber is then processed and used for housing and industrial uses.

People are saying, "Why should I take a job when I can get more from welfare than from working?" I know something about wages and salaries and I question the assertion that people can get more money if they are on welfare. However, that is what some people think and that is what they say to me.

When I spoke recently to a man from New Brunswick he was terribly concerned because he could not get help. He had to move his equipment 200 miles because the people needed to furnish the raw material he used were not available. It seems to me there ought to be better co-ordination among various departments of government so that available jobs are advertised and made known to people who under ordinary circumstances should be able to perform the work. I should think that Statistics Canada in Ottawa could furnish unemployment figures and, as well, figures relating to the available jobs in various categories. It seems to me that these figures could be produced from information that could be made available from Manpower offices.

The other day in New Brunswick I was told of a plant-I can tell the minister its name if he wishes-that may be forced to shut down in mid summer, when unemployment is supposed to be lowest, because not enough people were available to supply the raw material necessary to keep the plant going. So it seems to me that the government should try to bring about better co-ordination among the activities of various departments so that we might know what jobs are available and which people are available to fill them.

I have never thought that people should be able to choose between working and living on welfare. I do not think we ever intended people to be given that choice. I do not believe anybody ever intended that the productive ability of our people should be disregarded. What makes the matter worse is that a good many of us are being taxed to provide the welfare that is paid to some people as an alternative to working.

What am I recommending to the minister, Mr. Speaker? I think he ought to use his intelligence and great influence with the government and see that common sense is

The Budget-Mr. Flemming

applied at the administrative level. I suggest that steps should be taken so that all local activities coming under the auspices of Manpower, the Unemployment Insurance Commission and social welfare programs are carried on in the same office. Steps must be taken so that there is frequent, almost continuous consultation among the officers in charge of each of these divisions. Available jobs must be advertised; there must be publicity in this regard. Also, there must be publicity with regard to the general category in which people available are willing to work. There must be information as to their physical strength and willingness to perform the tasks stipulated. Experience in this field will soon be acquired, I suggest because our people soon acquire skills. Personally, I believe people prefer to work rather than not work. Also, the health of the worker would improve and his self-respect would be greatly enhanced. If the minister is to achieve his objective of providing more jobs, he must get down to a grass roots examination of the problem and make up his mind that the provision of handouts is not a permanent remedy.

I believe there is definite satisfaction with the increase in the old age security pension for people who have no other means of income. As for the veterans' pensions, I always thought that veterans who volunteered their services, fought the country's battles, risked their lives in various theatres of war when a great deal was at stake, were entitled to the most generous consideration possible. We voted that way. I am sure everyone within the sound of my voice is pleased that that bill carried.

Then there is the matter of the reduction of the general corporate tax rate. Also, the first $50,000 of corporate income is reduced by 5 per cent. Both these reductions are on manufacturing and processing income. I am not certain what will be considered manufacturing and processing but I assume that any business which changes raw material of any type by manufacturing and processing, thereby enhancing its value, will be eligible. Usually secondary industry is established, at least in my part of the world, because someone has vision. As a general rule, someone has vision and wants to do something. We have an outstanding illustration of that in the constituency I have the honour to represent. I refer to McCain Foods.

I believe I should give the House and the country some very pertinent information relative to McCain Foods and the contribution it makes to the general well-being of that part of Canada in which it is located, which happens to be my native New Brunswick, my own county of Carleton, and to our country in general due to the volume of its production which is exported to the United States. The grant which they received, which has received some publicity since the Minister of Regional Economic Expansion (Mr. Marchand) appeared before the committee, has contributed to the tremendous expansion of McCain Foods. This has had beneficial results in a part of Canada which is suffering from economic disparity. That grant will result in the creation of 770 jobs or it will not be paid.

The grant was based on a total capital expenditure of over $17 million and was, I am satisfied, entirely in accordance with the terms of the act and not due to any special treatment. It was much more justified than was the expenditure of a great deal of the taxpayers' money

June 13, 1972

The Budget-Mr. Flemming

by this government. In fact, the spending of many millions of dollars is completely unjustified when one thinks of the wasting of $150 million last winter on local projects and $30 million more this summer, the cost label being put on without any call for tenders or anything. If I had enough time I could give details that would scare hon. members. With this sort of expenditure one cannot help but wonder where it will all end. I suggest to the minister that if he wants to go down in history as being a great Minister of Finance, he should keep better watch than has been the case so far on this whole question of expenditures.

While on this subject I wish to go into the history of the events leading up to the establishment of McCain Foods. I know a good deal about it, for various reasons. During 1956 the government of New Brunswick was approached by four McCain brothers. They presented to the government, of which I was the premier, figures to show that we were importing certain foodstuffs, especially french fried potatoes, to such an extent that a local industry providing it would have good prospect of success. As a basis for the government of that day guaranteeing their bonds, they undertook to provide substantial equity financing to the full extent of their financial ability and of any credit they were able to obtain. They carried out their commitment to the letter.

The government of the day complied with their request and guaranteed their bonds. That decision has turned out to be a good one. It has never cost the people of New Brunswick one penny. It has been a success story from the start. The business has never ceased to expand. It is still expanding. It has spread into the United Kingdom where they have established a branch plant. It has spread into Australia with another branch plant established there. But it retains its head office in Florenceville, Carle-ton Country, New Brunswick, Canada. They have gone north into Grand Falls where they have established another plant. The direction for this worldwide empire comes from the head office in Florenceville.

But, Mr. Speaker, the end is not yet. These young men are not through expanding the business. With the research which they have established and is available to them, and the experience they have acquired, they are prepared to expand further. Indeed, they advise me that already they have made progress with certain plans for further expansion at Florenceville which in time will be discussed with the government. I for one recommend to this government that they be given the utmost consideration in accordance with the provisions of the statute under which the Department of Regional Economic Expansion operates.

In closing, let me quote the progress made by McCain Foods in a comparatively short time, about 16 years. I have secured information in this regard. This company, in business less than 20 years, now has the following achievements to its credit which I am pleased and proud to place on the record of this House. The minister knows about this New Brunswick plant because the McCains are not particularly strong Conservatives. As a matter of fact, it is quite the opposite. That makes no difference to me at this moment in bringing their accomplishments to the attention of the House.

The value of farm products purchased by McCain Foods in the year 1971-72 was $6,400,000. The average

daily purchase of farm products by McCain Foods is $40,000. The number of employees in New Brunswick working for McCain Foods is 1,607. Altogether, in all their enterprises, they employ over 3,000 people. McCain Foods is the largest food processor in the world, excluding the United States. The value of McCain Foods exports of foodstuffs for the year 1971-72 was $3,040,000 processed in New Brunswick. The total value of the New Brunswick potato crop is $15 million: McCain's purchase a substantial portion of it every year. McCain Foods process 21 different food products. At Florenceville and Grand Falls, New Brunswick, their two plants represent a capital investment of $29,500,000 and cover an area of 211 acres. This is the story of McCain Foods.

These are the things I would like to bring to the attention of the minister. By encouraging this sort of enterprise the minister will achieve his objective of supplying more and more jobs for the people of Canada. This is a part of the country that has the very definite label of disparity on it. Through you, Mr. Speaker, I give the minister this information because I feel he should be in possession of the facts.

I do not need to tell members of this House of my complete confidence in this company and the McCain brothers who direct its activities. The government of which I had the honour to be the head indicated its confidence in 1956 by guaranteeing their bonds. That is the acid test of confidence, is it not-to guarantee bonds for a substantial amount of money? Our government indicated this confidence in 1956. That confidence has been completely justified by subsequent progress and success. So far as the officers, management staff and personnel of McCain Foods is concerned, I have the greatest respect for every member of the organization including the McCain brothers themselves. Their ability has been demonstrated and their personal capacity and integrity I have never doubted or questioned.

Whatever criticism I have of the government for waste and extravagance, I include none at all for the assistance they have given to this industry located in a part of Canada generally recognized to be suffering from what is known as regional disparity and handicap. I can think of no better way to bring about an improvement in economic conditions in this or in other areas than by assisting an industry such as McCain Foods Limited. I reiterate my recommendation to the government that it continue to extend the utmost consideration to any planned future expansion of this outstanding industrial undertaking.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
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?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   THE BUDGET
Sub-subtopic:   FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF THE MINISTER OF FINANCE
Permalink

June 13, 1972