Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. With respect, may I remind the hon. member that the question has to be asked directly. We shall get into difficulties if hon. members ask questions about statements made outside the House. Questions may be asked about the proceedings of the House or statements made in the House, but it is a long-established rule that reference can be made to speeches made outside the House only to the extent of inquiring from the Prime Minister whether they represent government policy. Otherwise, I suggest they should not be referred to at all.

Mr. Howard (Skeena):

Mr. Speaker, I will ask my question directly. What plans does the minister-he knows what the answer is-or the government have to monitor industry and make sure that industrial wastes are kept inside the factory fence? Can he tell the House what plans he has for putting that edict into effect?

Hon. Jack Davis (Minister of the Environment):

Mr. Speaker, we have been developing national standards in conjunction with individual industries, one industry at a time. The new standards have been published. For example, those dealing with the pulp and paper industry and the chlor-alkali industry, have been published. Similar standards are being developed for the chemical industry, the oil refining industry, and so on. One of the principal objectives of these standards is to keep the pollutants inside the factory fence as far as possible.

Mr. Howard (Skeena):

Am I to take it from what the minister has said that he is going to bring about changes in the pulp and paper mill effluent regulations, to which he referred, which now permit pulp and paper mills to continue to dump their effluent into the water courses of the land, contrary to what he said in Montreal a few weeks ago?

Mr. Davis:

Mr. Speaker, our standards apply immediately to new construction, new mills and new developments. As to existing mills, the hon. member knows that he has one in his own constituency which is a very bad offender, but I do not believe he is advocating the immediate shutting down of the mill in his area.

Mr. Howard (Skeena):

I rise on a question of privilege, Mr. Speaker. The minister has deliberately distorted what I asked him, and in the process-

Oh, oh!

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. The hon. member knows that another member should not be accused of deliberately distorting what has been said. He can say it has been

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distorted, but he has no right to say the distortion was deliberate.

Mr. Howard (Skeena):

Mr. Speaker, so far as I am concerned, the minister deliberately did just that. He distorted the purpose of my question-

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please.

Mr. Howard (Skeena):

-that part-

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. The hon. member may believe that and he may think that; however, there are things that members can think but cannot say. That is the basis to effect the propriety of debate. I would think there are many things that hon. members would like to say. Some things can be said and some things can only be thought, and sometimes the one does not coincide with the other. I remind the hon. member that he has been in the House a long time and he knows he cannot accuse another hon. member in that way. He can argue with the minister as long as he wants to, but he certainly should not accuse another member, whether he be a cabinet minister, a member of his own group, a frontbencher or a backbencher, of deliberately distorting another member's words.

Mr. Howard (Skeena):

Mr. Speaker, if I may continue my question of privilege, the minister, out of his ignorance of the subject, distorted the purpose of my question. I asked him whether he intends to bring about changes in the pulp and paper mill effluent regulations so that industrial wastes will be kept within the factory fence.

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please.

Mr. Davis:

Mr. Speaker-

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. I really fail to see how the hon. member, on a question of privilege, can redraft the question he asked previously or seek further information. That is not a question of privilege; it is dispute and debate between the minister and the hon. member. I think we should move on to the next subject.

Mr. Roch La Salle (Joliette):

Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a question about the strike at the port of Montreal. The Minister of Labour being absent, I shall ask it of the Minister of Transport or to the Minister of Justice.

Does the government intend to enforce the injunctions issued and have people been arrested up to now?

Hon. Otto E. Lang (Minister of Justice):

Mr. Speaker, the ordinary administration of justice and the enforcement of rules are in the hands of the provincial Attorneys General rather than in the hands of the federal Attorney General.

May 26, 1972

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