December 29, 1971

PC

Steve Eugene Paproski

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Paproski:

The devil's advocate.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
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PC

Maclyn (Mac) Thomas McCutcheon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McCutcheon:

I wish to quote a few more figures before I get to my main point. According to the Dominion Bureau of Statistics, in 1940 cattle were $6.35 and hogs $11.15. In 1950 cattle were $23.10 and hogs $28.75. In 1960 cattle were $20.87 and hogs $24.14. The member for Kam-loops-Cariboo (Mr. Marchand) said that was underpricing them, without a marketing board. The point is that today cattle are 24 cents, 36 cents and 38 cents a pound.

To return to the comments of the hon. member for Lanark-Renfrew-Carleton, I ask this question: Why in the name of heaven would any cattleman want to be covered by this bill? That is the point. If that is not relevant, I do not know what is. I mentioned the fact that with supply management and the closed-shop factor there is no opportunity for young people to get into the business. I commend the hon. member for Skeena (Mr. Howard) for saying that what this government wants to do is industrialize agriculture and get rid of farmers.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

Maclyn (Mac) Thomas McCutcheon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McCutcheon:

When we talk about supply management we are talking about quotas. The only people who benefit from a quota system are those who get it in the first instance. When the hon. member for Middlesex (Mr. Lind) goes back to his lumber yard he will want to take this into consideration. From then on it is the cost of production. Last week the commission looking into the problems of egg producers held a meeting in his city. I quote from the transcript what Mr. Littlejohn, a poultry producer, said about supply management at the meeting in London, Ontario:

This year two tobacco producers that I know well and who both live less than 3 miles from me rented their acreages for the year. The one got $400 per acre and the other $475.

There is an added cost of production. What are you going to say to the consumer who will be faced with an increased cost? The poultry producers have been talking about this quota all over the province of Ontario. The lumber companies, poultry producers and millers have been constructing henhouses as though they were going out of style. Why? They want to get a tremendous quota because they know it is saleable. They are talking about $2 or $3 a hen for a marketable quota.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

Steve Eugene Paproski

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Paproski:

Now we know.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

Maclyn (Mac) Thomas McCutcheon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McCutcheon:

Yes, now you know. My third point is that nowhere in this bill do we have effective machinery to limit the importation of foreign products. We are being asked to pass another Bill C-259 on good will. The minister said he will be bringing in amendments to the tax bill after it has been tried out on the Canadian people. The government wants to do the same with this bill.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
?

An hon. Member:

Experiment.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

Maclyn (Mac) Thomas McCutcheon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McCutcheon:

Yes, experiment.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Russell Clayton Honey (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order, please. I regret to interrupt the hon. member. I do so to advise him that his time has expired.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Carry on.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Russell Clayton Honey (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Is there unanimous consent that the hon. member continue?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

Maclyn (Mac) Thomas McCutcheon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McCutcheon:

I feel very humble and grateful that my colleagues have allowed me to continue. I promise I shall not be long. The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Olson) said in 1970 when introducing Bill C-197 that the situation regarding the marketing of foreign products in Canada makes it at least desirable, if not essential, that we have enabling legislation on the statute books, that is, authority from Parliament for the government to respond from time to time to the requests of a substantial number of producers in this field if they are being hurt by foreign imports.

I mentioned the fact that consumers will very likely have to pay more. I come to my final point. Why all the rush? An inquiry into egg marketing is presently being held in the province of Ontario. Their report will be completed soon. Therefore, I submit it is an affront to the producers of the province of Ontario that at this time we in the House are being asked to ram this bill through.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear!

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

Maclyn (Mac) Thomas McCutcheon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McCutcheon:

Yesterday the hon. member for Lanark-Renfrew-Carleton said that farmers in his area are hard-pressed. He has no corner on this market. I come from one of the supposedly better agricultural areas in the province of Ontario. The farmers in my area are crying the same blues. They are desperate and despondent. They are saying, "Well, let's give it a try." I am reminded of what a world traveller said in 1949 or 1950. He had just returned from China. They had thrown out Chiang Kai-shek and had accepted communism. He said that the people of China had accepted communism because they felt nothing could be worse than what they had. This is the attitude of the agricultural industry in Canada today. They feel nothing could be worse than what they have. They are grasping at straws. I tell them that this bill is certainly no solution.

In conclusion I point out that the government's advice to agriculture over the years does not cause me to have great faith in the bureaucratic decision-making that this bill will substitute for hard-nosed decision-making of the workaday world. A year ago the government said, "Grow bar-

December 29, 1971

ley." Now barley is a glut on the market and growers in southwestern Ontario are facing disaster. It is privately admitted that they were given bad advice and that they should have been growing wheat.

Canada cannot continue to have government by promise. The Minister of Agriculture is asking Canadians to accept this bill on faith. The Minister of Finance (Mr. Benson) did the same thing with respect to Bill C-259. He promised amendments after he had tried out the bill on Canadians. He invoked closure to get his way. Now the Minister of Agriculture is about to try the same thing. Why the rush?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Russell Clayton Honey (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

If the hon. member who has just ended his speech will accept a question, I will recognize the hon. member for Richelieu (Mr. Cote).

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Florian Côté

Liberal

Mr. Florian Cote (Richelieu):

The hon. member said a while ago that in 1962, the price of pork was 27 cents a pound. Does he know that in 1959, the price of pork was $17.80 per hundredweight? I sold some myself. The price went up to $27 per hundredweight afterwards. A lot of farmers gave up because the minimum price was abolished. They gave up hog raising and as a result of the production margin, the price of pork went up in 1962.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

Maclyn (Mac) Thomas McCutcheon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McCutcheon:

I had great difficulty with the translation, but what I did understand was really nothing to answer. I shall be happy to sit down with the hon. gentleman and discuss it. Maybe, despite our different languages, we could get together. I could not understand the question through the babble that came to me. I don't think the hon. member made any sense in the first place, but I will be glad to talk to him.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
LIB

Eugene Whelan

Liberal

Mr. E. F. Whelan (Essex):

Mr. Speaker, I do not wish to take up very much time in this debate, but as a farmer and as a Member of Parliament representing a farm area I think I should make some comments on the amendments proposed by the hon. member for Crowfoot (Mr. Horner). I ask Your Honour to let me know if I stray too far afield, but I listened yesterday and today to everyone who spoke and it seems to me that they not only covered the whole field but, if I may say so, they covered the whole agricultural plain.

If these amendments were allowed to pass in the form suggested by the hon. member for Crowfoot, it would be like pulling teeth from a watchdog and then training him to bite a chicken thief. It would be like removing one or two legs from a good cutting horse and then expecting him to do the same job of sorting for you. It would be like watering down a drink 90 to 1-your imagination would have to do a lot for you.

I can remember my uncles talking about prohibition days and about a certain farm process; I suppose one could call it that because farm products were used in it. A man engaged in the manufacturing business lived in the area. Every time he made a new batch he had to choose a new name. He liked his brands to have a proper title. My uncles, being of Irish descent, were always available to sample these new brands. Mr. Speaker, these amend-

Farm Products Marketing Agencies Bill

ments put me in mind of the brand they called "Love in a Canoe"-it was almost water.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink
PC

George Harris Hees

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

That's not the way I heard it.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   FARM PRODUCTS MARKETING AGENCIES BILL
Sub-subtopic:   ESTABLISHMENT OF NATIONAL MARKETING COUNCIL AND AGENCIES
Permalink

December 29, 1971