December 16, 1971

SC

Gilbert F. Rondeau

Social Credit

Mr. Gilbert Rondeau (Shefford):

Would the hon. member who has just resumed his seat allow me a question?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Permalink
LIB
SC

Gilbert F. Rondeau

Social Credit

Mr. Rondeau:

Would the hon. member tell us whether he will vote for or against the bill?

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Permalink
LIB

Eric William Kierans

Liberal

Mr. Kierans:

We shall find out tomorrow when the question is put.

Topic:   GOVERNMENT ORDERS
Subtopic:   INCOME TAX ACT
Permalink

PROCEEDINGS ON ADJOURNMENT MOTION


A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 40 deemed to have been moved.


NATIONAL LIBRARY-INQUIRY AS TO APPOINTMENT OF ADVISORY BOARD

PC

Walter Gilbert Dinsdale

Progressive Conservative

Hon. W. G. Dinsdale (Brandon-Souris):

Mr. Speaker, last week I directed a question to the Secretary of State (Mr. Pelletier) regarding the appointment of a board that would support the work of the national library as provided for in the National Library Act. The National Library Act was approved by this House some two years ago. One of the very vital parts of the act was the provision of an advisory board, council, or whatever you like to call it, that would assist the national librarian and his staff in providing the most effective library service for Canadians everywhere.

When I posed the question, rather flippantly, the Secretary of State replied that the board was going to be appointed quite soon. That was the same answer he gave a year ago almost to the day. When the act was being considered by a parliamentary committee, the National Association of Librarians came before us expressing concern that they were not going to be too closely involved in the functioning of the new national library. Those Members of Parliament who were on the committee strongly sympathized with the viewpoint expressed by the library association, and in his appearance before the committee the Secretary of State expressed his desire to seek the advice of representative librarians in all the provinces of Canada. This is why I think the matter of appointing the board has become one of extreme urgency.

The establishment of a national library in this country was far too long delayed. It was not until 1962 that the Conservative administration of the day cleared the way

December 16, 1971

for the establishment of a library. Dr. Charles Lamb, who had been designated as the national librarian-he had been originally the dominion archivist-was appointed to head up the project, and it was regarded as the dawn of a new age in terms of the provision of unbiased information for Canadians concerning all aspects of life in Canada.

It was hoped that the national library would co-ordinate with the university libraries. It was also anticipated that the national library, through an advisory board, would be able to co-ordinate with the provincial libraries. I think that one of the reasons the national library, notwithstanding the fine accommodation that has been made available, has not been functioning at maximum effectiveness is the long delay there has been on the part of the government in appointing this advisory board.

Tonight I should like to know the reason for the delay from whoever will be speaking for the government. I suggested the other day during the question I asked that it might because the Secretary of State is preoccupied in establishing another information service known as Information Canada. I referred to that informational centre as the chosen instrument of propaganda for the government. Why so much emphasis on Information Canada, and why de-emphasize such an important institution as the national library of Canada?

I do not know what Information Canada is doing in terms of providing widespread knowledge to Canadians in all parts of the country. But I did examine the latest report that came out covering the activities of Information Canada for October and I noticed that in the national inquiry centre here in Ottawa there were some 176 items, amounting to about eight per day, including such important subjects as congratulations to the Hon. Martin O'Connell on his appointment to the ministry, one complaint that Toronto had to wait too long to receive government information out of the bookstore, and one complaint about the futility of Information Canada's feedback role.

Again it is a matter of emphasizing priorities. Surely the national library takes precedence as an unbiased source of information, as an information Canada centre, over the Johnny-come-lately government information propaganda bureau, if I may use that term, Information Canada. I trust we shall be given an assurance tonight that an advisory board will be appointed, not "very soon", which was the answer given a year ago, but immediately, so that this vitally important institution, the national library of Canada, may play its full role as a centre of genuine, unbiased information.

Topic:   NATIONAL LIBRARY-INQUIRY AS TO APPOINTMENT OF ADVISORY BOARD
Permalink
LIB

Gerald Richard Cobbe (Parliamentary Secretary to the Postmaster General)

Liberal

Mr. Gerald Richard Cobbe (Parliamentary Secretary to Postmaster General):

Mr. Speaker, consultation with all interested parties with respect to the appointment of the national library advisory board is complete. We are at present urging that all vacancies in our agencies be filled, and the national library advisory board is considered a priority. Thus, the hon. member can expect action to be terminated before the spring of 1972.

Topic:   NATIONAL LIBRARY-INQUIRY AS TO APPOINTMENT OF ADVISORY BOARD
Permalink
NDP

Stanley Howard Knowles (N.D.P. House Leader; Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):

Terminated?

Proceedings on Adjournment Motion

Topic:   NATIONAL LIBRARY-INQUIRY AS TO APPOINTMENT OF ADVISORY BOARD
Permalink

TRANSPORT-METRO CENTRE DEVELOPMENT, TORONTO-ESTABLISHMENT OF COMMITTEE TO WORK WITH PROVINCIAL AND MUNICIPAL AUTHORITIES-STUDY OF TRANSPORTATION NEEDS

NDP

Francis Andrew Brewin

New Democratic Party

Mr. Andrew Brewin (Greenwood):

Mr. Speaker, last Friday I asked the Minister of Transport (Mr. Jamieson) a question concerning a project which would have a massive impact on metropolitan Toronto and, indeed, on southern Ontario generally-a billion dollar super-scheme which in ten or twenty years will dominate the future of the city. I refer to the metropolitan centre development project.

It is proposed to build a complex on 190 acres of the most important part of the land available in the neighbourhood of Toronto. There is talk of 50,000 offices to be constructed, of 20,000 housing units, of the use of the former Union Station, known to many visitors to Toronto, to be changed and the building to be incorporated somehow or other in the plan. I asked the minister whether, in light of the importance of this proposed billion dollar project, the government would set up an intergovernmental committee to work with the other authorities concerned in connection with the problems arising out of such a development.

The minister said that there had been consultation with parties to the project as far as the transportation aspects were concerned, though he was not sure he could say that a formal working party had been set up, either intergovernmental or interdepartmental. I found the minister's reply to be altogether unsatisfactory, although I appreciate his expressed willingness to discuss with any interested group the federal role in the project.

There are three major elements in the federal role. The first concerns transportation. This is a development of the railways, the CN and the CPR. Many studies have been made with regard to it, and what I should like to see is some disclosure to the public of the results of these studies, some consideration given to the way in which future development of the area will be affected. Has the minister sought, in discussion with the developers, to secure adequate safeguards for an extended passenger commuter train service? Is he considering the provision of rights-of-way for future developments in transportation, such as air-cushion vehicles?

The second area in which the government has an interest is housing. Only a few days ago the president of CMHC called attention to the acute housing shortage in Toronto. Does this scheme provide adequate accommodation of the kind most required? One of the great needs in this area is low cost housing. Will the scheme be developed on this basis, or will it be designed to produce the highest possible profit?

Another subject of extreme importance from the federal point of view is that of pollution. What will the sewage from 20,000 residences and 50,000 or more office workers do to the whole problem of pollution in that area, which is already something of a blighted area rendered unfit for human habitation by the foul stench which comes from the Ashbridge Bay sewage plant?

These three aspects, transportation, housing and pollution are all matters the federal government is concerned with, and what the public in our area wants to know is

December 16, 1971

Proceedings on Adjournment Motion

whether or not there is a co-ordinated approach, whether or not there is planning in respect of this matter and whether the project and the agreement the developers want to make with the city of Toronto will provide adequately for dealing with future developments in this field. It is of the utmost importance that there be public participation in this scheme. The planning staff of the city of Toronto was overridden by the council of that city. Safeguards in the planning legislation of the provincial government have been set aside by special legislation dealing with the subject. It is important that the federal aspect be one which is open to public participation, public knowledge and public concern.

I should like to conclude by saying my point is simply that such massive redevelopment of a vital piece of Toronto demands widespread critical attention and public scrutiny. The scale of this attention and scrutiny must match the colossal scale of the development itself. There is a philosophy which ought to lie behind an examination of this matter. It is that the quality of life has become a fundamental concern. Bigger is no longer better. Development does not reside in building more and growing bigger. Development must mean qualitative improvement of the working and living conditions of the citizens of this city, one of the great metropolitan areas of our country.

I want to hear from the minister. I know the parliamentary secretary will not be able to answer all these questions tonight, but I give him notice that I and members who represent other interested areas-I see one in the House tonight-will show our concern about this matter and will see that there is public participation in this massive project which will affect the future and the lives of a very large number of the citizens in this part of the country.

Topic:   TRANSPORT-METRO CENTRE DEVELOPMENT, TORONTO-ESTABLISHMENT OF COMMITTEE TO WORK WITH PROVINCIAL AND MUNICIPAL AUTHORITIES-STUDY OF TRANSPORTATION NEEDS
Permalink
LIB

Gérard Duquet (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Gerard Duquet (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport):

The hon. member for Greenwood (Mr. Brewin) raised two main points in his question of December 10 to the Minister of Transport (Mr. Jamieson) concerning metro centre development in Toronto. The first one was whether there was inter-governmental liaison on matters such as transport in the metro centre development.

Mr. Speaker, several committees have been formed. The intergovernmental liaison committee includes federal, provincial, metro and city of Toronto representatives. In addition to this there is a second group called the intergovernmental technical co-ordinating committee. Again, it consists of senior representatives of various federal, Ontario, metro and city departments. Overlapping problems are discussed at this level and there is a full measure of co-ordination on matters of transportation policy.

The second question put by the hon. member was whether any studies had been undertaken by the government to establish the transportation needs of the Toronto centre region. The answer to this was, of course, yes. A good many studies under federal auspices are under way. The minister mentioned one, the Toronto commuter rail study. This involves representatives from both major railways, from Ottawa and the province, metro Toronto and the Toronto Transit Commission. There is a great deal of

work being done at all levels to ensure effective liaison and co-operation between all those involved and between the public and private sectors.

As for the many other points that have been raised by the hon. member, there is no doubt in my mind that most of them must be part of the studies under way. Nevertheless, I have taken good note of the points mentioned and I shall bring them to the attention of the minister.

Topic:   TRANSPORT-METRO CENTRE DEVELOPMENT, TORONTO-ESTABLISHMENT OF COMMITTEE TO WORK WITH PROVINCIAL AND MUNICIPAL AUTHORITIES-STUDY OF TRANSPORTATION NEEDS
Permalink

AGRICULTURE-SPECIAL LOANS TO EXHIBITIONS- EXTENSION OF PROGRAM TO INCLUDE CLASS D FAIRS

LIB

Maurice Brydon Foster

Liberal

Mr. Maurice Foster (Algoma):

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Olson) on December 15 was to ask him to extend the $10 million loan program recently announced for class A and B fairs to class C fairs and to the smaller communities of this country. You suggested that there is no urgency in this question because fairs are not held at this time of the year. However, I say to you that this money is part of the emergency budget brought forward by the Minister of finance (Mr. Benson) in October to provide winter employment, and therefore there is urgency in this question.

I applaud the action of the government to make low interest loans available to exhibition commissions, not only for winter works but as a continuing program, and I understand that the minister plans to make $100 million of loan funds available under this program over the next 15 years. The loans can be up to 90 per cent of the cost of the buildings, and paid over a 30-year period. With interest rates at a very minimum, just a fraction of a percentage point above the level at which the federal government can borrow money, it is easy to see that the value of this program cannot be questioned. These buildings will serve not only for agricultural purposes but for community activities, recreation and sports activities.

However, having said all these good things about the program, now I must tell the bad. This program is only available as announced to class A and B fairs. These are found only in the larger centres. The program as it is now will only be available, I believe, to one community in northern Ontario, that being Thunder Bay which happens to have a class B fair. However, communities that do not have any fair board will be ineligible for this program. There are five fairs in my constituency, all of which are of class C size. They are located at Bruce Mines, Iron Bridge, Massey, Providence Bay and Manitowaning. Each of these fairs makes an outstanding contribution to the community. Their directors work diligently every year to improve their annual exhibitions, fairgrounds and exhibition buildings. They do this without pay. The only reward they get is the satisfaction of improving and aiding their communities.

This program should be to serve these smaller fair boards as well as the large ones. The Ontario government gives grants of up to $10,000 on a total expenditure of $40,000 for community centre buildings. This is available to all communities and all sized fairs, big and small. This is a grant which the Ontario government provides, whereas the federal program is only a loan program. It really does not cost the federal government very much to provide this. All we are really doing with this program is using the federal government's borrowing power to aid

December 16, 1971

communities to provide these public buildings at the lowest possible cost.

So I ask the minister to expand the program to help the smaller towns and communities across this country which need it. I would also ask that the regulations be brought forward immediately and that application forms be made available as well, so that the public may make use of this program and communities who need these funds will have them as soon as possible. For instance, the town of Bruce Mines in my constituency has an expansion undertaking going on at its fair exhibition building during the winter months. It needs this program. I would ask that the program not only be expanded but that the regulations, application forms, and ultimately the loan funds, be made available as soon as possible.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE-SPECIAL LOANS TO EXHIBITIONS- EXTENSION OF PROGRAM TO INCLUDE CLASS D FAIRS
Permalink
LIB

Marcel Lessard (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Marcel Lessard (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Agriculture):

Mr. Speaker, since the minister announced this program a few weeks ago the department

Proceedings on Adjournment Motion

has received many representations from hon. members and from organizations throughout the country. I would first like to express my sincere appreciation and transmit the appreciation of the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Olson), to the hon. member for Algoma (Mr. Foster) who has raised this matter on more than one occasion with the minister and who has written him on the subject.

Tonight it is my privilege to tell the hon. gentleman that his confidence in the department will bring him some pleasure, because within a few days the minister will be in a position to table the rules and regulations that will cover those grounds, and at the same time they will be applied to the type of fair about which the hon. member has been talking, and expressly to fairs in class C. I hope this program will be useful throughout the country and that we will be in a position to help as many people as possible. I thank the hon. gentleman for having pressed the matter so strongly with the department.

Motion agreed to and the House adjourned at 10.30 p.m.

Friday, December 17, 1971

Topic:   AGRICULTURE-SPECIAL LOANS TO EXHIBITIONS- EXTENSION OF PROGRAM TO INCLUDE CLASS D FAIRS
Permalink

December 16, 1971