July 8, 1969

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

PROCEDURE

LIB

Donald Stovel Macdonald (President of the Privy Council; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Hon. Donald S. Macdonald (President of the Privy Council):

Mr. Speaker, I should like to make a suggestion with respect to today's business in the house which I hope might find general acceptance. As you know, government order No. 99 standing in my name is a motion to add proposed standing orders 75a, 75b and 75c. As I indicated last night, the advantage of this motion over the motion standing in the name of the hon. member for Grenville-Carleton (Mr. Blair) is that my motion would enable the house to amend directly the proposed standing orders, if that be desired, rather than refer them back to the standing committee for amendment. Although the former motion would obviously be the simpler procedure, I think it was apparent from last evening's discussion that that motion would be resisted by some hon. members and indeed that there would be protracted objections by way of points of order and perhaps questions of privilege before the merits of the proposals could be discussed.

It seems to me therefore that the quickest way to get down to the merits of the proposed standing orders would be to enable my colleague, the hon. member for Grenville-Carle'.on, to put his motion.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
LIB

Donald Stovel Macdonald (President of the Privy Council; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Macdonald (Rosedale):

It seems to me that this is what hon. members were seeking last night.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
PC

Eldon Mattison Woolliams

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Woolliams:

Did the Prime Minister (Mr. Trudeau) talk to you?

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
?

An hon. Member:

You must be overworked.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
LIB

Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Mr. Trudeau:

Do you want flexibility or not?

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
LIB

Donald Stovel Macdonald (President of the Privy Council; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Macdonald (Rosedale):

I would be quite prepared 10 yield on my motion, in case there is any risk that as a result of the Chair's ruling last night my motion would have precedence, and if necessary, with the unanimous consent of the house, will be glad to withdraw it so the hon. member can move his motion.

[DOT] (2:10 p.m.)

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
PC

Gerald William Baldwin (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. G. W. Baldwin (Peace River):

Whether or not the minister wishes to withdraw his motion is a matter for him. The position we have taken regarding the point on which Your Honour has partly ruled is that certain vestigial rights are possessed by the hon. member for Grenville-Carleton. If he chooses to exercise his rights, or, rather, to carry out the duty imposed on him by the committee, we shall, of course, contribute to the debate which will follow in accordance with our responsibilities. But we shall do this without compromising the position we have taken, namely that the President of the Privy Council had no right to bring on the motion he did in the circumstances which existed.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
NDP

Stanley Howard Knowles (N.D.P. House Leader; Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Stanley Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):

As the house is well aware, Mr. Speaker, the only reason we are still in session is to deal with this question of procedure. It is not our desire to stay and deal with it at all. But the government has reached a certain decision, and so we are here. We feel that if we must deal with this question we should deal with it according to the rules and we are glad, therefore, that the President of the Privy Council has seen fit to let the house proceed in accordance with the standing orders.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
RA

André-Gilles Fortin

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Andre Fortin (Lolbiniere):

Mr. Speaker, first I want to say how happy I am. The attitude of the President of the Privy Council (Mr. Macdonald) proves that the House of Commons is not wasting its time, that the perhaps virulent debate of last night has borne fruit and that the President of the Privy Council having slept on it has, so to speak, seen the light.

Mr. Speaker, we are happy that the President of the Privy Council has realized that we

Debating Time Allotment were right concerning our express demand that the Standing Orders and the work ol the committees be respected. On behalf of my colleagues, I wish to congratulate him for it and to encourage him, throughout the whole debate on the procedure, to stay as positive and as open to the suggestions of the opposition.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
PC

Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Marcel Lambert (Edmonton West):

Having participated extensively in the debate on points of order in connection with the motion of the President of the Privy Council I would say that the points which have arisen in connection therewith, and the ruling which Your Honour has made, become an academic exercise: many of the arguments were not answered and it cannot serve as a precedent.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
IND

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Independent

Mr. Speaker:

Whether the hon. member for Edmonton West likes it or not, the very learned ruling which the Chair has given is inscribed in the annals of the House of Commons and will guide generations of parliamentarians to come.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
PC

Gerald William Baldwin (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baldwin:

Would the house be prepared to give consideration to following the procedure adopted in the debate some years ago, when we were discussing the question of the flag? It was agreed that the debate which then took place would be postponed day by day in accordance with the normal routine of our proceedings so that hon. members who had important and urgent questions to ask might have an opportunity to put them before the house.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

No.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
PC

Gerald William Baldwin (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baldwin:

I know the Prime Minister has been away for some time and I am sure he will have all kinds of answers ready.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
IND

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Independent

Mr. Speaker:

Perhaps I should put the motion, because at this point the question is academic. The point of order can be raised later.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink
PC

Gerald William Baldwin (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Baldwin:

May I be permitted to advise Your Honour that if the hon. member wishes to speak we intend to pursue the same point of order as the one I raised yesterday; it applies with equal validity to the motion which is about to be put.

Topic:   ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   NEW PROVISIONS RESPECTING DEBATING TIME ALLOTMENT-WITHDRAWAL OF MOTION
Permalink

July 8, 1969