January 26, 1968

TRANSPORTATION

ATLANTIC PROVINCES-STUDY OF PROBLEMS BY STANDING COMMITTEE


On the order: Government Notice of Motion: January 24, 1968-The Minister of Industry (for the Minister of Finance)-That the standing committee on transport and communications be empowered to consider and report upon all aspects of transportation as they relate to the Atlantic provinces, taking account of the conclusions and recommendations of the Atlantic provinces transportation study, January, 1967, volumes 1 to 12, prepared by the Economist Intelligence Unit Limited, and the report of the royal commission on transportation, 1961, volumes 1 and 2, and recommend what measures should be initiated in order that the national transportation policy may be as fully implemented as possible in the Atlantic provinces. That the said committee shall examine, in particular, the effectiveness of the Maritime Freight Rates Act with power to study and make recommendations concerning: (a) changes or alterations which may now be desirable in the Maritime Freight Rates Act; and (b) alternative methods of assisting transportation in the Atlantic provinces either in addition to the Maritime Freight Rates Act or in substitution therefor in whole or in part with the purpose that maximum benefits be obtained by the Atlantic provinces from he expenditure being made. That for the purposes of this inquiry, the said committee shall be empowered to adjourn from place to place within Canada; that the clerk and necessary supporting staff be authorized to accompany said committee, and that the committee be authorized to engage the services of counsel, accountants, etc.


LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Pursuant to section 2 of standing order 21 this notice of motion is transferred to and ordered for consideration under government orders at the next sitting of the house.

Topic:   TRANSPORTATION
Subtopic:   ATLANTIC PROVINCES-STUDY OF PROBLEMS BY STANDING COMMITTEE
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UNITED NATIONS

NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION


On the orders of the day:


PC

Michael Starr (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Michael Starr (Ontario):

Mr. Speaker, I wish to address a question to the Acting

Prime Minister. In view of the serious situation developing between the United States and North Korea will the government make a full statement on that matter, preferably on Monday so that parliament and the people of Canada will know the facts and, in particular, what Canada's position is and will be?

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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?

Hon. Paul Marlin@Acting Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. friend for the helpful way in which he has phrased his question. The Security Council will be called into urgent session this afternoon at the initiative of the ambassador of the United States to the United Nations. I think that this is a situation where prudence and cool heads will be required.

The Security Council has an obligation in matters that threaten the peace or where there is a violation of the peace. The fact that one of the major powers in the world, the United States, should seek the assistance of the United Nations in overcoming this difficult problem by diplomacy is something I am sure to be welcomed by the Security Council as well as by all of us. Our ambassador has been instructed to use his influence and his presence on the council to see that diplomatic methods are resorted to in trying to meet this difficult and tense situation.

It might be useful for the Security Council to consider a parallel situation when the former secretary general, Dag Hammarskjold, suggested that someone representing him might be sent to China to deal with the situation and to avoid the use of any but peaceful means. It may be that in this situation the Security Council will want to give consideration to the dispatch of someone representing the Secretary General.

I assure my hon. friend that the Canadian government is following the matter very closely. I hope to be seeing the United States ambassador right after orders of the day. I assure my hon. friend and the house that the government is fully conscious of the situation and is following it very carefully.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton

Progressive Conservative

Hon. E. D. Fulton (Kamloops):

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, while I know the house welcomes the fact that it is being given information, the request from our house leader was that the minister might make a full

January 26, 1968

Inquiries of the Ministry statement on Monday, of course on motions. The minister has complied with the request now, but we are on the orders of the day.

The matter is sufficiently serious, and the interest and responsibility of members is sufficiently grave that, in view of the course followed by the minister, I should like to suggest that we might now revert to motions. He could complete his statement on motions and then there could be comments from representatives of the other parties in the house.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin (Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate what my hon. friend has said. I do not have anything further to add at this time. After the meeting of the Security Council today it might be that we could revert to motions; if not, I would follow the suggestion that I make a more complete statement on Monday.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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NDP

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

New Democratic Party

Mr. T. C. Douglas (Burnaby-Coquitlam):

Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a supplementary question. In view of the fact that the Security Council is meeting today I think it is incumbent upon the government to give us some information at this time concerning what position the Canadian representatives at the United Nations will be taking in respect of the Pueblo incident. I should like to ask the Acting Prime Minister whether Canada will be taking the position that this seizure of a United States ship by the North Korean naval forces constitutes an isolated alleged violation of the freedom of the seas or whether the Canadian government takes the position that this action is a violation of the Korean armistice agreement signed in 1953 and therefore constitutes, in the terms of that agreement, a renewal of the armed attack and challenges the principles of the United Nations. It would seem to be important that Canada's position in this regard be made clear at once.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin (Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

Mr. Speaker, I think my hon. friend will agree that this is a situation in respect of which we ought to be careful about the judgments we make. There is the position put forward by the United States, as I said the day before yesterday, that the ship was not plying in the territorial seas of North Korea. This is a matter of fact which undoubtedly will be discussed in the United Nations Security Council. There have been some allegations of violations on the other side. I do not wish to prejudge these. Until there has been the fullest examination I think it would be wise to suspend judgment.

[Mr. Fulton.)

It is this kind of situation I had in mind when I observed that it might be desirable at some point for a representative of the Secretary General himself to go to the area. Then we would have to see what developments follow.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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NDP

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

New Democratic Party

Mr. Douglas:

May I ask a further supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. I was not asking the minister to make a judgment concerning whether or not there had been a violation of freedom of the seas. I was asking whether or not the Canadian government considers this to be a separate act in dispute between the United States government and North Korea, or whether he considers it to be a violation of the Korean armistice of 1953 and therefore that Canada would have a responsibility to deal with any violation of that agreement.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin (Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

Mr. Speaker, as I said the other day this seems to be a matter which does not involve the United Nations directly, or Canada as a component of the United Nations force. The ship in question was not, I believe, under the command of the United Nations in Korea. However, this will be a question that the other side will dispute and it is a matter which will have to be examined. I did refer to the allegation of certain other violations. These too may come within the purport of the agreement, not the agreement of 1957 but that of July 27, 1953.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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PC

Gordon Minto Churchill

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Gordon Churchill (Winnipeg South Centre):

Mr. Speaker, as a supplementary question, may I ask the Secretary of State for External Affairs whether he is casting a doubt on the statement of the United States government that the ship was in international and not in North Korean waters.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin (Secretary of State for External Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

I do not think I have said anything that would in any way cast doubt on the position taken by the United States.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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PC

Gordon Minto Churchill

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Churchill:

I understood the minister to say there was an allegation by the United States. Is there not anything more positive than that?

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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?

Mr. Marlin@Essex East

I said there was an allegation that the Pueblo was plying in the territorial sea off North Korea. I did not say we agreed with that, but I said that was the allegation made. This undoubtedly will be one of the facts to be examined by the Security Council. I want to clearly indicate, and I am sure my hon. friend in this matter, so

January 26, 1968

important as it is to the peace, will not want to add to the difficulty, that we have not in any way indicated that the position taken by the United States is not one that can be substantiated.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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PC

Gordon Minto Churchill

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Churchill:

I rise on a question of privilege, Mr. Speaker. Every time a question is asked here that disturbs the minister for external affairs he suggests the person asking the question is not in favour of peace. I reject that allegation.

Topic:   UNITED NATIONS
Subtopic:   NORTH KOREA-REFERENCE TO SECURITY COUNCIL-REQUEST FOR STATEMENT ON CANADA'S POSITION
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January 26, 1968