April 26, 1967

NDP

Stanley Howard Knowles (N.D.P. House Leader; Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Knowles:

May I suggest to the minister, since Your Honour has ruled on standing order 75 and on the minister's motion, that if the minister is not prepared to accept my suggestion, he ought to come up with another one. Let us be reasonable, as the minister himself suggests.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
RA

Charles-Arthur Gauthier

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Gauthier:

Mr. Speaker, to reply to the house leader who said that he entered into an agreement, it seems to me that one of our members, I do not know which one, entered into an agreement during the meeting. I do not know which one; I should like to know the name of that member, but I will say to the house leader that I have only one obligation, and it is towards my constituents, and I made the the promise to have amended-

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

It is obvious we will not reach agreement and I wonder whether hon.

April 26, 1967

members wish to continue on the point of order or adjourn.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
SC

Bert Raymond Leboe

Social Credit

Mr. Leboe:

We have been here all evening. It is now three o'clock in the morning anti we stayed, men and women that we are, to do a job that needs to be done. If there be any who do not like what the minister has done or not done, said or not said, that is no reason to thwart the efforts of the rest of us, who have sat faithfully until this hour of the morning, to do the job we were sent to do.

I appeal to those resisting third reading to reconsider their actions. I can come on Friday; I am a 15 cent bus ride from parliament hill. Others have made plans, thinking they were dealing with men. All this is a pack of nonsense. Somebody is trying to make headlines and carrying on-and for what, I do not know.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
PC

Richard Albert Bell

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Bell (Carleion):

Mr. Speaker, I feel as keenly about the situation of the dairy industry as does the hon. member for Roberval. I think he would be doing a grave disservice to those dairymen he represents and that I represent by acting at cross purposes with those representing other people in Canada. I suggest to the hon. gentleman that if he will consider carefully what he is doing he will realize that he is doing a disservice to the very people he ought to be serving. I shall fight the battle in the next session on the point of view the hon. member has expressed here. Many on the other side of the house will battle the Minister of Agriculture.

If the hon. gentleman persists tonight he may lose some of the support he has and some of the sympathy which has been extended to the dairy industry of the country. The hon. gentleman might be responsible for the dairy industry not being treated as fairly as it ought to be treated.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
PC

Gordon Minto Churchill

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Churchill:

I have a very special interest in this matter because I proposed the scheme which, with modifications, was adopted these last two days. I proposed that the Conservative party would forgo further debate on the unification bill. I proposed we should take a vote on that bill immediately orders of the day were called-was it yesterday or the day before?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
NDP

Stanley Howard Knowles (N.D.P. House Leader; Whip of the N.D.P.)

New Democratic Party

Mr. Knowles:

Tuesday.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
PC

Gordon Minto Churchill

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Churchill:

I further proposed we

should deal with interim supply and with the subject of rules and procedure. I went so far 23033-979

Ways and Means

as to say this would be done without debate, or by one spokesman per party with a limitation of 20 minutes. I agreed with the suggestion of the house leader that we should deal with the adult training bill and the bill in the name of the Minister of Finance (Mr. Sharp). This was a firm house leaders agreement that the present session would stop at midnight on Wednesday.

I would never have consented for the Conservative party had I imagined for one minute that this agreement would be broken.

I was prepared to discount the period from midnight to 3 a.m. or 6 a.m. in the morning-I do not care how long. But there was an agreement that this session would end on Wednesday. I would never have committed our party to that agreement had I not placed faith in the word that was given at that meeting by the government representative, the representative of the N.D.P., the representative of the Social Credit party and the representative of the Creditistes.

Never would I have consented, because we had it within our power to carry on a debate for several days, as everyone knows, with regard to the bill then before us on adult training, the bill presented by the Minister of Finance, and the interim supply measure. That discussion could have gone on for perhaps a week or longer. All of this our party gave up in response to the general agreement which was reached at that house leaders meeting. We have heard much about house leaders agreements and about business committees. The whole thing is now being destroyed by what is going on tonight. I think we should settle the matter now.

I make one further appeal to the gentlemen who have opposed settling this matter, on that basis. I make a special appeal to the hon. member for Lapointe (Mr. Gregoire) who is a really active member of this parliament. Having done so much to expedite our work during the last two days, will these gentlemen not yield on this point now and make this small concession?

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
RA

Charles-Arthur Gauthier

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Gauthier:

Mr. Speaker, I will frankly admit that I believe that if many were in my position, and especially if all the members cared for the amendment that was asked for during the all day, they would act a little as I do tonight. I do not know whether it would be possible to take one more day. I am not well enough acquainted with the rules of the house to try to

April 26, 1967

Ways and Means

postpone the question to another meeting of the house, even after the holiday. I would simply suggest that third reading be adopted as soon as we come back, so as to let once more the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Greene) reflect on his old sins.

[DOT] (3:10 a.m.)

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
LIB

George James McIlraith (Minister of Public Works; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllraith:

Mr. Speaker, I do not know if there is an understanding, but it would mean because it is interim supply, which we need, that we would have to proceed with debate on it tomorrow. I am wondering if the hon. member fully appreciates that the first item of business in the new session is the address in reply to the throne speech and that this whole debate on milk prices, and the dairy situation, is a perfect example of a subject that could be debated on that very first item of business in the new session. I wonder if that is understood well, because it would be the same point of time as he has called for in the suggestion he has just made, if I understood his remarks correctly. In view of this I wonder if I might ask for unanimous consent for the third reading.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
RA

Charles-Arthur Gauthier

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Gauthier:

Mr. Speaker, after listening to the leader's explanation, I understand that we shall surely have the opportunity, right after the opening of the next session -and I am taking his word for it-to discuss the matter and move a vote of non-confidence against the government. I understand that our representative at the leaders' meeting had given his word. I wanted to know his name and I now know it. Somebody told me. I do not want my party to be accused of not keeping its word. I am also taking the house leader's word to the effect that the first item to be considered after the opening of the session will deal with the dairy policy, which will enable us to move a vote of non-confidence against the government.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
IND

Gilles Grégoire

Independent

Mr. Gregoire:

Mr. Speaker, must I conclude from the minister's statement that if third reading is passed tonight, he will allow, at the opening of the next session, a debate which could end up with a motion of want of confidence if the dairy policy of the government is not changed? Will the minister give us this opportunity at the very beginning of the next session?

What conclusion should I draw from the statement of the minister?

If it is yes, Mr. Speaker, then we will joyfully agree to go on with third reading, all the more so since we did not give our word to anyone on this matter.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
LIB

George James McIlraith (Minister of Public Works; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllraith:

Mr. Speaker, what I had said was that the debate on the address in reply to the throne speech was the first item of business in the new session, and that in the throne speech debate this was a subject that in my understanding came within the rules and could be debated fully on the address. I also pointed out that if I understood the hon. member's remarks correctly, that was at the same point of time as he was indicating we should take for the third reading stage of the bill. The opposition is free, under the rules applicable, to move amendments. I do not think that after tonight I should seek to interpret the rules, but the opposition have full rights under the rules.

[Translation\

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
IND

Gilles Grégoire

Independent

Mr. Gregoire:

Mr. Chairman, you will agree with me that I made an effort to achieve a new agreement. I think you will admit that the agreement or at least the undertaking, given by the minister is not an undertaking at all. Obviously, there will be a speech from the throne.

Mr. Speaker, if we come up with an amendment on the constitution, obviously if the hon. member for Roverval also comes up with an amendment on agriculture, he will be declared out of order. Everybody knows that.

The undertaking of the hon. minister consequently is worth nothing. The minister could introduce the estimates of the Department of Agriculture immediately after the speech from the throne. That would be a better undertaking-

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Order. Perhaps the hon. members would agree that we have discussed the point of order long enough. The hon. member for Roberval, after consultation and reconsideration, is satisfied. I understand he is the one who originally objected to our moving third reading immediately.

In answer to the point of order raised by the member for Lapointe, if the Chair may do so, I can tell him, and I have no doubt that he knows it himself, that it is permissible to discuss any topic whatsoever when the address in reply to the speech from the throne comes up, regardless of the nature of the amendment proposed. I am sure that the hon.

April 26. 1967 COMMONS

members will be willing to have me move the motion at that time.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
RA

Roland Godin

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Roland Godin (Porlneuf):

Mr. Speaker, I am willing. However, I wish to point out that I do not believe for a single moment what the house leader has just told us, because on March 22, following the question raised by the hon. member for Chapleau (Mr. Laprise), he was told: Wait a few minutes, then we will be able to discuss it. A little later, on April 11, the hon. member for Vil-leneuve tried to discuss the matter. Always the same answer: On interim supply you will be able to discuss that and settle the matter once and for all. We are now on interim supply and still we are asked to wait. It means that since March 22 five weeks have passed and our farmers will lose a month and a half, maybe two. Finally, I desist, like the hon. member for Roberval. I wish to say in the house that again we were sold a bill of goods.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
LIB

Charles Mills (Bud) Drury (Minister of Industry; Minister of Defence Production)

Liberal

Mr. Drury (for Mr. Sharp) moved

the third reading of the bill.

Motion agreed to and bill read the third time and passed.

Business of the House BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE ADJOURNMENT TO MAY 8, 1967

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink
LIB

George James McIlraith (Minister of Public Works; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Hon. G. J. Mcllraiih (Minister of Public Works) moved:

That, when this house adjourns at the end of this sitting, it shall stand adjourned until Monday, May 8, 1967, at 10.30 a.m. provided always that if it appears to the satisfaction of Mr. Speaker, after consultation with Her Majesty's government, that the public interest requires that the House should meet at an earlier time during the adjournment, Mr. Speaker may give notice that he is so satisfied, and thereupon the house shall meet at the time stated in such notice, and shall transact its business as if it had been duly adjourned to that time; and

That in the event of Mr. Speaker being unable to act owing to illness or other cause, the Deputy Speaker shall act in his stead for the purpose of this order.

Topic:   WAYS AND MEANS
Subtopic:   INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   APPROPRIATION ACT NO. 4, 1967
Permalink

April 26, 1967