April 18, 1967

PRESENCE IN GALLERY OF PARLIAMENTARIANS FROM FINLAND

LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

May I be permitted to bring to the attention of hon. members the presence in the Speaker's gallery of a group of distinguished parliamentarians from Finland.

Topic:   PRESENCE IN GALLERY OF PARLIAMENTARIANS FROM FINLAND
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?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   PRESENCE IN GALLERY OF PARLIAMENTARIANS FROM FINLAND
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LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

On behalf of hon. members I wish them a pleasant and interesting visit to Canada.

Topic:   PRESENCE IN GALLERY OF PARLIAMENTARIANS FROM FINLAND
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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

ALLOCATION OF TIME FOR CONSIDERATION OF DEFENCE ACT AMENDMENTS


Hon. G. J. Mcllrailh (Minister of Public Works): Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present the report of the business committee on the question of allocation of time on the committee of the whole stage and all remaining stages of procedure on Bill No. C-243, to amend the National Defence Act and other acts in consequence thereof, as amended, which was referred to the business committee on Thursday, April 13, 1967. The report is as follows: Pursuant to the order of reference on Thursday, April thirteenth, 1967, your committee has considered the question of allocation of time on the committee of the whole stage and all remaining stages of procedure on Bill C-243, an act to amend the National Defence Act and other acts in consequence thereof (as amended). I now report that the committee has been unable to reach a unanimous agreement on the question referred to it. Mr. Speaker, I give notice, pursuant to the provisions of standing order 15A, that on Thursday next I will move that an order be made allocating the time on the committee of the whole stage and all remaining stages of procedure on Bill C-243, to amend the National Defence Act and other acts in consequence thereof, as amended, being government order No. 107 on this day's order paper. My motion will provide that two days shall be allocated for the completion of discussion on the committee of the whole stage on Bill C-243, to amend the National Defence Act and other acts in consequence thereof, as amended, and that one day shall be allotted for the completion of the third reading stage on the bill. Perhaps I should add so that hon. members will understand-


PC

John George Diefenbaker (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

We understand it perfectly well; the axe.

[DOT] (2:40 p.m.)

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   ALLOCATION OF TIME FOR CONSIDERATION OF DEFENCE ACT AMENDMENTS
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LIB

George James McIlraith (Minister of Public Works; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllrailh:

-that the motion can only come before the house on Thursday, not tomorrow. It provides for the time indicated in addition to the time that will have been spent between now and the adoption of the motion. At that time we will have had at least 13 days on the committee stage in addition to the time provided for in the motion.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   ALLOCATION OF TIME FOR CONSIDERATION OF DEFENCE ACT AMENDMENTS
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AGRICULTURE

DAIRY POLICY-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 26

RA

David Réal Caouette

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Real Caouelte (Villeneuve):

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. member for Chapleau (Mr. Laprise), the adjournment of the house under standing order 26 for the purpose of discussing a matter of urgent public importance, namely the government's dairy policy, which is now arousing the ire of all Canadian dairy farmers, and for the purpose of arriving at some early solution to that thorny problem.

Mr. Speaker, the urgency-

Topic:   AGRICULTURE
Subtopic:   DAIRY POLICY-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 26
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LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Order. Would the hon. member send me a copy of this motion?

The hon. member knows that the debate must deal only with the urgency of debate and not with the urgency of the motion. I would therefore ask him to make the remarks he deems necessary on that point.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE
Subtopic:   DAIRY POLICY-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 26
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RA

David Réal Caouette

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Caouelte:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The urgency of debate is obvious, because right now the farmers, the dairy producers, not only in one but in several provinces, are organizing to march on Ottawa. They are unhappy with the recent dairy policy laid down by the government and announced by the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Greene).

The farmers feel that it is very urgent to review the dairy policy so that they can get the minimum price they asked for, that is

April 18, 1967

Dissatisfaction with Dairy Policy $5.10 per hundredweight of manufacturing milk.

Mr. Speaker, I also feel that the following reasons militate in favour of a debate on a definite matter of public importance and urgency, namely the new dairy policy of the government.

Whereas the amount of money made available to the Canadian Dairy Commission is inadequate;

Whereas the dairy policy does not meet with the satisfaction of the producers of manufacturing milk;

Whereas there is no guarantee that the subsidy will be maintained regularly at $1.11, due to the fact that the export premium of 10 cents per hundredweight is not sufficient and that the Canadian Dairy Commission will have to deduct the necessary amounts from the $1.11 subsidy;

Whereas this means that the $1.11 subsidy will be liable to readjustment because of shipping costs;

Whereas the surpluses of dairy producers, namely grades 2, 3 and 4 fluid milk, are not entitled to subsidies;

Whereas cream producers do not receive any special subsidy;

Whereas there are rumours that a group of over 10,000 dairy producers are organizing a march on Ottawa in protest against the present dairy policy;

Whereas there is talk of a general strike amongst dairy producers in the near enough future to slow down the overall economy of this country;

Whereas a ceiling has been put on dairy production and that beyond a certain quota, namely that of last year, dairy producers receive no subsidy to encourage greater production;

Whereas it is proved that our agriculture is now, and has been for several years, in such a state of stagnation that our farmers are dismayed and discouraged;

Mr. Speaker, for those reasons and many others, I feel that this is a matter of urgent public importance which should concern all members as elected representatives of the people.

It has become obvious that farming is no longer economic. On several occasions, farmers have expressed their wishes and their needs. They have written briefs; they have brought pressure to bear on their members of [Mr. Caouette.l

parliament and they have even marched on Ottawa.

But it remains, nevertheless, that farmers have always had to cope with the rising cost of living and yet their income has not increased proportionately.

Without the farmers, urban citizens and factory workers, members of parliament could not live.

A farmer's farm is an urgent matter, it is a private enterprise. Do we want to destroy or to save it?

I feel it is time, Mr. Speaker, to discuss that urgent matter, so that we may clearly establish that Canadian farmers, Canadian dairy farmers will be treated more fairly than they have been up to now by the Department of Agriculture, by the Minister of Finance and Receiver General (Mr. Sharp) and by the government as a whole.

Such is, in my opinion, the urgency of the matter. That is the reason for my intervention today on behalf of the farmers and, to prove how urgent the matter is, I suggest that the Minister of Agriculture bring it before the house so that a free vote may be held and, if it is necessary to put the existence of the government at stake, let nothing stop us, but let us respect Canadian farmers.

This is how urgent my question is.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE
Subtopic:   DAIRY POLICY-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 26
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PC

Harold Warren Danforth

Progressive Conservative

Mr. H. W. Danforth (Kent (Onl.)):

Mr. Speaker, I would certainly like to add my wholehearted support to the proposition put forward by the hon. member in requesting an adjournment in order to debate the very serious problem today facing a great segment of our agricultural industry. It is true that normally we would wait to debate this matter on interim supply and at that time would put the proposition before the government, but I think the problem is far too urgent to brook any delay in such a debate. The farmers of this nation are very much concerned about this problem. Meetings have been held of all the large farmers' organizations and the farmers of this country have come to the conclusion-and the government was duly notified of this-that anything less than $5 per hundredweight for milk would not be acceptable.

I think the government should be endeavouring to save this industry. We find the dairy farmers are talking about strikes, the destruction of dairy products and holding them back from the market. Nobody wants to see this type of action take place. On the

April 18, 1967 COMMONS

other hand the dairy farmers have to find some means of bringing this most important question before the people of this country. Surely it is urgent that we as members of parliament, accepting full responsibility for this problem, take every opportunity to place this proposition before the government and see if by such a debate we can bring to their attention the real urgency in the matter. We should try to see if through such a debate we can bring to the attention of the government the real urgency of this problem and bring about an equitable solution so these farmers will not be forced from their lands and will not be forced out of the dairy business, and so Canada will not be placed in the position of having to import dairy products.

[DOT] (2:50 p.m.)

I should like to emphasize with all the force at my command that now is the time to solve this problem. A debate at this time would give us an opportunity to put before the government the very real problem with which the dairy farmers of this country are concerned. I do not feel that a delay of one, three or five days will serve any useful purpose. We should have the opportunity to debate this problem now in the house.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE
Subtopic:   DAIRY POLICY-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 26
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Minister of Transport):

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately the house leader had to go out so I will say just one word on the subject; that is that the announcement by my hon. friend the Minister of Agriculture was made at least two weeks ago. Therefore it seems to me that the subject matter, important and urgent as it is to the farmers, does not fall within the class of subjects as to which there is urgency of debate. There might have been a case to be made on the day or the day after the Minister of Agriculture made his statement, but to suggest that something new has happened between yesterday and today to make this matter sufficiently urgent to interrupt the regular business set down for this day would, I suggest to Your Honour, be to make a mockery of the rather narrow provisions of the standing order. For that reason it seems to me that the motion should not be considered to be in order.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE
Subtopic:   DAIRY POLICY-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 26
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PC

John George Diefenbaker (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Leader of the Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, if ever there was any doubt that the motion was proper, the Minister of Transport has removed it. He stated that there would have been urgency and this motion would have been justified if made two weeks ago, but because

Dissatisfaction with Dairy Policy it was not made two weeks ago but only today there is not sufficient urgency to bring the motion within the rules of the house.

Mr. Speaker, the motion could not have been made two weeks ago because people did not realize what a mishmash had been made of the dairy policy by the government. Only in the last two or three days has the realization come to all parts of this country that the dairy industry-

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Subtopic:   DAIRY POLICY-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 26
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

That is an insult to the farmers.

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Subtopic:   DAIRY POLICY-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 26
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PC

John George Diefenbaker (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

When I speak of mishmash I sometimes think of my hon. friend.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE
Subtopic:   DAIRY POLICY-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 26
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?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE
Subtopic:   DAIRY POLICY-MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER 26
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April 18, 1967