November 28, 1966

GREY CUP VICTORY OF SASKATCHEWAN ROUGHRIDERS

PC

John George Diefenbaker (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Leader of the Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, with the permission of the house I would like to make a reference to a national event, epitomizing the pride of Canadians, whatever province they may live in. With the two teams that participated in the Grey Cup on Saturday it was indeed a politician's paradise because no matter where you stood or where you lived you could express the hope that the rough riders would win. However, coming from the province of Saskatchewan where we have had a football drought that lasted more than half a century, the outcome of the game was of such importance that it deserves historic reference. To the Saskatchewan Roughriders, the winners of the Grey Cup, I am sure members in all parts of the house would want to join in congratulations. To the Ottawa Rough Riders, our congratulations also for the high sportsmanship they displayed; and to all the participants among the various teams throughout the season, finally culminating in this great classic, there must be the appreciation of Canadians for the degree to which football has brought us all together in a unity that otherwise is sometimes doubted.

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?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

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LIB

Lester Bowles Pearson (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Right Hon. L. B. Pearson (Prime Minisler):

Mr. Speaker, perhaps you would permit us on this side of the house to associate ourselves with the words of the right hon. gentleman in congratulating the Saskatchewan Roughriders on winning this great national contest on Saturday. Mr. Speaker, you can imagine how delighted I, personally, was at this victory, having so many friends in Saskatchewan to whom I owe so much.

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?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh.

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LIB

Lester Bowles Pearson (Prime Minister)

Liberal

Mr. Pearson:

The right hon. gentleman talked about the football drought in Saskatchewan. There are of course other kinds of drought, but in any event it was a great

sporting game, well played, and as the right hon. gentleman has said our congratulations go out both to the winners and to the losers.

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?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

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NDP

Thomas Clement (Tommy) Douglas

New Democratic Party

Mr. T. C. Douglas (Burnaby-Coquitlam):

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the members in this party would also be allowed to send their congratulations to the Saskatchewan Rough-riders on their outstanding victory last Saturday. As has been said, Saskatchewan has been trying a long time for the Grey Cup. The last time they contested the finals was also against Ottawa, in 1951. Saskatchewan has always had some difficulty with Ottawa, not just in football; but this time they were successful, and I think the main tribute should go to the fans in Saskatchewan who have stayed with the Saskatchewan Rough-riders through thick and thin, and supported their team even when it was at the bottom of the league. Their tenacity and perseverance has paid off, and we in this party would certainly like to add our congratulations to them upon their outstanding victory.

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?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

[DOT] (2:40 p.m.)

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O.E.C.D.-REPORT FOLLOWING PARIS MEETING ON WORLD TRADE AND AID

LIB

Robert Henry Winters (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Hon. Robert Winters (Minister of Trade and Commerce):

Mr. Speaker, I have just returned from the Annual Ministerial Council meeting, in Paris, of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development. I beg leave to table the communique of this meeting in both English and French.

This was the fifth annual meeting of the O.E.C.D. which, in 1961, succeeded the O.E.E.C., the Organization for European Economic Co-operation. In 1961, O.E.C.D. ministers established a collective target of 50 per cent growth in real terms for member countries as a whole in the decade 1960-70.

At this year's meeting, satisfaction was expressed that the rate of growth so far has been in excess of that necessary to reach the target, and that prospects for the remainder of the decade continue to be good. It was recognized, however, that the problem remains of

November 28, 1966

Report on O.E.C.D. Meeting containing inflationary pressures while maintaining a high level of employment.

The organization is doing useful work on the payments relations between member countries, and ministers gave instructions for the continuance of this work and the organization's efforts toward the improved operation of capital markets. The O.E.C.D. will also pursue its study of the nature and consequences of differences in scientific and technical levels between countries-the so-called technological gap.

So far as trade is concerned, ministers discussed the current multilateral negotiations in Geneva and stressed the importance of ensuring their success. This was an aspect to which I devoted particular attention in my own comments. I also commented on changing economic attitudes in east European countries. I suggested that the organization should be giving attention to the possibilities of further developing east-west trade, and bringing the eastern European countries to a greater extent into the world trading family. This subject was also raised by the United States and Belgian delegates, and a special reference to it was included in the communique.

Much attention was devoted to the aid and trade needs of the developing countries, including the growing need for food aid, for technical and other assistance to increase domestic agricultural production in developing nations which are short of food, and for greater self-help efforts by these countries themselves. This is a world problem and all countries in a position to help have a role to play. I urged that the burden of food aid should be shared equitably and not fall disproportionately on exporters of grain and other foodstuffs.

On aid more generally, a consensus was reached that the volume being made available should be increased and terms and conditions improved from the point of view of the needy countries. On behalf of Canada, I suggested that more attention should be given to an attempt to measure more exactly the effectiveness and contribution to developmental progress of aid being provided. In general, the meeting was productive and constructive and the exchange of views on the major economic issues was of high quality.

I had an opportunity to have discussions with the ministers of the various countries, including Mr. Debre of France, the United States representative, Mr. Rostow and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Right Hon. James

Callaghan. Mr. Callaghan and I naturally discussed, among other things, the new approach to the European Common Market. Mr. Callaghan confirmed that the United Kingdom is serious in its efforts to join the European Economic Community. He said that by January the United Kingdom government would be actively engaged in a round of visits to the various countries of the E.E.C. He therefore suggested that the first meeting of the Canada-United Kingdom Ministerial Committee be held then in London so that, among other things, they would be in a position to inform us fully and more currently of progress in their negotiations.

I indicated that it had been our hope to have the inaugural meeting in Canada, but that I was confident for the purposes outlined, the Canadian side would be prepared to meet in London. Mr. Callaghan assured me that there had been no change in the Labour government's intention to attempt to safeguard essential commonwealth interest.

I met with our trade commissioners, who are doing a good job in promoting Canadian exports to France, and again visited the new Travel Bureau Office which was opened during my last visit to Paris in September. The results of the establishment of this office are most gratifying.

Inquiries about travel to Canada have jumped from a level of 200 to 300 a month to an average of about 1,500 in October and November. This reflects both the advantage of having a well-located and staffed office in the centre of population in a country well disposed toward Canada, and the impact that Expo '67 is making in Europe.

Mr. Sydney Pierce, our chief negotiator in Geneva for the Kennedy round, came to Paris on my invitation to give me a first-hand report of the progress being made in these important and confidential trade negotiations, which are now in their active phase. There are still considerable uncertainties and difficulties to be overcome but, provided there is an adequate response to the offers and requests for concessions which have been made, we may expect a very significant result both from the point of view of Canadian interest and the widening of world trading opportunities as a whole.

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PC

Francis Alvin George Hamilton

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Alvin Hamilton (Qu'Appelle):

Mr. Speaker, being from Saskatchewan I think it will be generally understood that I am in a good mood today.

November 28, 1966 COMMONS

I should like to thank the minister for providing the opposition with a copy of his remarks a few minutes before the house opened.

It is worth while at this time to remember the objectives which were laid down in 1961 at the meeting in Paris when Canada and the United States joined the O.E.C.D. as full-fledged partners. The objective of a 5 per cent growth rate per year has been maintained by all member countries. At the time we attended this meeting the minister of finance and I represented Canada and we thought that 5 per cent was a growth rate that would be worth-while striving for, and would be a worth while achievement if it could be maintained. Due to the expansionist policy adopted at that time I think all countries concerned can take credit for the fact that this growth rate has been achieved each year since 1961.

1 do not intend to say anything about the troubles involved in arranging the mutual and advantageous flows of capital from one country to the other, because that subject is too involved to be covered by this type of statement. I should like to make a remark, however, about the British entry into the European common market.

It is my hope that these ministerial meetings will be held frequently and in a mood of mutual self help. Canada should put foward some clear and positive alternatives which the United Kingdom can use in its bargaining position with the European common market. It should make it known to Britain that it does not stand alone in its particular economic trouble. In this regard it should also be pointed out that the United Kingdom still has to overcome the objections of France and to a lesser degree of Italy and Germany in relation to being received into the European common market. Canada's interests are definitely concerned and we expect from the Canadian side a full representation of those interests.

It was nice of the minister to mention the growth in our tourist trade. Only ten years ago we proposed that Canada could have a billion dollar industry by 1967 if we set our minds to it. The various tourist offices in various parts of the United States, in Paris and in London, have demonstrated our faith in the idea that if we could have tourist centres like the ones we have they would create a positive pay-off.

[DOT] (2:50 p.m.)

The last comment I am going to make concerns the question of the Geneva discussions.

23033-66O2

Report on O.E.C.D. Meeting As usual, the minister has expressed generalizations which say nothing and do not get at the real meat of the problem. In connection with the Geneva discussions, it is very clear that the problem before the nations is that in the so-called non-discriminatory type of proposals in GATT they were actually discriminating against the newly developing nations. The best that the Geneva conference has been able to come up with yet is that some sort of combined hand-outs should be arranged for the newly developing nations, on a formula basis.

I suggest this is far from being good enough. The time has come for Canada and all the industrial nations of the world to realize that this great gulf between the developing nations and the industrial nations is growing wider each year. We expect from our governments positive leadership in trying to provide institutions to bridge this gulf.

Proposals have been made in this house and across this country for several years now; I have listed them before and shall do so again. We need a new type of international commodity agreement that will give to the developing nations a fair and stable price for their products. We must think of the interest of the developing nations first, if this proposal is to succeed. It is time this gulf was bridged by the use of international trading arrangements. We have such international trading organizations in connection with grain. This idea should be extended to all goods which can be graded, shipped, and stored. We will need, for many years to come, bilateral give-aways, but we should be trying to bring about these basic institutions of trade in order that we may bridge this gulf in a practical self-help manner.

Other ideas should be brought forward, such as buying and selling agencies in order that we may deal directly with state trading nations, which have only one agency with which to deal. This idea should be developed. In addition we need some form of clearing house for short term and medium term credits. When dealing with countries such as the United Kingdom, which is fully developed, there has to be a growth rate exchange between our two countries on a bilateral basis. As well there must be growth rate exchanges with other countries outside the O.E.C.D.

These ideas will take time to develop, but every country in the world is waiting to see how the industrial nations of the world will take the initiative to bridge this gulf between the developed nations and the newly developing nations. This is the test of our generation.

November 28, 1966

Report on O.E.C.D. Meeting In the generalized statements issued by the minister today I see no evidence that the O.E.C.D. or the Geneva discussions on GATT are producing the type of positive proposal that will help in a tangible way to bridge the gulf between those nations which are industrialized and the people of the world who are insisting on a better standard of living to match our standards.

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NDP

David Lewis

New Democratic Party

Mr. David Lewis (York South):

Mr. Speaker, I want to join the hon. member who has just sat down in thanking the minister for sending opposition parties copies of his statement. I want to add, in case he wants to get cross with any of his officers, that the copies which were supplied to us contained all the pages in the proper order.

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?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh.

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NDP

David Lewis

New Democratic Party

Mr. Lewis:

The O.E.C.D. is a consultative body and not a policy-making body. One therefore could not expect the minister to bring us a report of actual policies arrived at. I want to limit my remarks very briefly to two or three points only. I join with the hon. member for Qu'Appelle (Mr. Hamilton) in urging that a new approach to international trade is long overdue. As I read the minister's statement, I could not help but recall the hopes that all of us had in the early years after the war in the setting up of the International Monetary fund, the International Bank and the various international trade agencies, all of which were intended to assist both the developing and the developed nations and increase economic exchange among countries of the world. I think it is true to say, without appearing pessimistic or cynical, that all of them have had very limited success.

One of the great dangers in the world at the present time is the fact that these important international agencies, some of which have been in existence for 20 years, have achieved relatively little in the years spent in discussions and conversations. Everyone here knows this as well as I do and regrets it as much as I do, but it does suggest that a country like Canada should be proposing new approaches to the problem instead of being satisfied with discussions at Geneva. The government of a country like Canada should be giving leadership in those areas where it is possible for us to do so.

This brings me to the other two points I should like to make. The minister has referred to the difficulties we face in giving aid to other countries, particularly aid in the form of food. This emphasizes the necessity for the

establishment of an adequate world food bank. I cannot help but recall the fact that some years ago when this was proposed at a general assembly of the United Nations ministers of the Canadian government were among those who opposed the idea because, they said, we could not afford it. This was back in 1953 or 1954. We should change this attitude. We are a country which can start a world food bank by making available our resources for this purpose. In this area leadership from a country such as Canada would supply the impetus to proceed from mere discussions to active accomplishment.

The same is true in general about aid to the developing countries. As has been pointed out in various debates, Canada's contribution to the developing countries at the present time is a niggardly one. It is away below the 1 per cent which is our present objective in the United Nations. It has seemed to be a larger figure because our grants and also our loans and credit arrangements are included in the amount. Our actual contribution, as distinct from credits and loans, amounts to about one third of 1 per cent of our gross national product. Here is an area in which instead of merely engaging in discussions with others and regretting the insufficiency of aid to developing countries, we could give leadership by increasing our own aid to an adequate level.

Finally, if I may, let me urge the minister on behalf of this party not to wait for Mr. Callaghan's report on the negotiations for entry into the European Economic Community, which might put Canada in a position of having to object to or protest against some of the terms for the entry of the United Kingdom into the common market. This government would be well advised to discuss with the United Kingdom government some of the effects which the entry of the United Kingdom into the common market might have on this country. Let us persuade them to take such action at present as would not harm Canada or other members of the British Commonwealth at a future date.

I conclude my remarks in the hope that Canada will act so as to give leadership to other countries through the development of new policies in these areas.

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RA

David Réal Caouette

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Real Caoueiie (Villeneuve):

Mr. Speaker,

the minister has just returned from a meeting in Paris of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development or in French

November 28, 196$

"L'Organisation de cooperation et de de-veloppement economique."

It is unfortunate that the minister does not have a French copy of the statement he made this afternoon; we only have an English copy, and yet, that meeting was held in Paris where, I believe, the discussions were conducted mainly in French. One of his officials called my office this morning to tell me that the French translation had not been done. It seems that, under similar circumstances, and in view of the importance of such a meeting, the minister could have waited for the French translation and made his statement tomorrow instead of today. Then the country's two important groups would have been respected, the English speaking group and the French speaking group.

Mr. Speaker, all this brings me to consider a few remarks in the minister's statement, particularly on page 3 where he says:

[DOT] (3:00 p.m.)

Much attention was devoted to the aid and trade needs of the developing countries, including the growing need for food aid, for technical and other assistance to increase domestic agricultural production in food-short developing nations and for greater self-help efforts by these countries themselves.

Canada's intentions, as well as the intentions of those countries which met in Paris are of prime importance. But after visiting countries like the U.S.S.R., Czechoslovakia, and this year, Iran, I think that the greatest problem of those countries, especially in the case of Iran, pertains to education. Even though we may send food, equipment, technical assistance, if we do not send them technicians to train them, we are losing our time. Besides, the history of those countries goes back 3,000, 4,000 and 5,000 years and thanks to our fast means of communication today, those countries are practically our neighbours.

This summer, for instance, I met in Iran a Mr. Lariviere, a Canadian technician in mechanics, who was sent there to teach mechanics to young Iranian students. After teaching for nine months Mr. Lariviere tells me that he has been unable to show them a single thing to enable them to develop and go ahead, according to their own abilities. They do not want to learn. This is quite a problem. And Mr. Lariviere tells me that Canada wants him to teach them in two

Report on O.E.C.D. Meeting years what it took him six years to learn in Canada.

Mr. Speaker, I feel that we should help countries which need food. In India, for example, where there are 250 million cows, half of the population of that country, it has been suggested that God should be worshipped instead of cows and that those cows should be used as food.

The Hindus still have not understood; they are fighting among themselves to save cows instead of saving the people.

Therefore, it became a matter of education and as long as we keep on discussing-in Paris or here in Ottawa, or anywhere in the world-ways of providing them with material assistance, machinery, technicians or even food, if we do not begin by making them realize their own responsibilities, Mr. Speaker, we are wasting our time.

And when the minister told them: [English]

On behalf of Canada, I suggested that more attention should be given to an attempt to measure more exactly the effectiveness and contribution to developmental progress of aid being provided.

The minister is right then in discussing the means which would enable them to progress independently.

In Iran, Mr. Speaker, where a large quantity of American machinery could be seen, which the United States had given to Iran, Persia, what offended me was to hear the people criticize the United States. In addition to the machinery, for which the United States asked nothing in return, that country even had to be provided with operators because its people cannot operate the machines themselves, they cannot because they do not have the necessary knowledge. And yet, the Americans were accused of being bad capitalists.

Therefore, the minister is right in saying that we must endeavour to inform those people, to educate them, to show them how to assume their responsibilities; and then, we will be most happy to help them to progress and achieve a standard of living comparable to the one we enjoy here in Canada.

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SC

Robert Norman Thompson

Social Credit

Mr. R. N. Thompson (Red Deer):

Mr. Speaker, I will try to keep my comments very short and to the point. I wish to touch on several matters which may not have been mentioned

November 28, 1966

Report on O.E.C.D. Meeting in the remarks of the other opposition speakers.

We are grateful for having received prior to the calling of the house, a copy of the remarks to be made by the minister. I found his remarks most interesting, as they relate to Britain entering the European Common Market and to the general area of trade between those countries now comprising the O.E.C.D. This has direct reference to the Atlantic community and correlates with some of the discussions which took place at the NATO parliamentarians conference which preceded this one. I believe that every opportunity for consultation and co-ordination that can be fostered between the various countries to develop freer trade is worth while.

I wonder whether the minister might not have made a few more remarks regarding the prospects of freeing general trade restrictions, which by the way should be in line with the policies discussed by his own party, but which I believe on a broader scale are the only answer to meeting the problems facing us today in the world, problems which are inherent to international relations.

His remarks concerning countries short of food are also most timely. I wonder whether the minister could have reported anything with regard to the current desperate food situation existing in India. Certainly talk alone is not sufficient to meet the problem of world food distribution.

I would also add that I believe it is vital to this very problem not just to give food aid, or provide educational programs to help people handle, process and increase their own food production. It is in the area of international settlements where today our whole food distribution program in Canada is lopsided. Many countries cannot trade with Canada because of their international settlements problem.

I should like to see Canada take a lead in this regard, because unless through an improved system of international settlements, we can free restrictions which presently hinder our trade patterns, we will never be able to solve the current problems connected with trading prospects not only between the countries of O.E.C.D. but with other countries with which we are now developing an increased trade pattern.

It is also a very good thing that the minister has had further contacts with our own trade commissioners in various countries, because it is through the work and the offices of these

gentlemen that the increasing trade patterns that are ours are coming into being. Every opportunity for co-operation and consultation in this regard is good. We appreciate the remarks of the minister.

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DURUM WHEAT-QUOTA POLICY ON MARKETINGS

LIB

Robert Henry Winters (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Hon. Robert Winters (Minister of Trade and Commerce):

Mr. Speaker, I should now like to make a brief statement to advise the house of the special quota policy which was announced today by the Canadian Wheat Board with respect to producer marketings of Durum wheat.

There has been a strong market demand for Duram wheat for the past several months. By the close of navigation the board will have shipped virtually all of the Durum wheat which they have been able to move into export positions, and they are anxious that terminal and seaboard stocks of this type of grain be built up during the winter months so that additional sales commitments may be entered into for the opening of navigation period in the spring.

Producer deliveries of Durum wheat have been relatively light in the crop year to date, and in order to encourage farmers to market additional supplies in the immediate future the board has declared an open delivery quota on this type of grain from this date until February 28, 1967.

It is hoped that this open delivery privilege will bring forth substantial supplies of Durum wheat from farms during the next twelve weeks which will permit the forward movement of these stocks from country elevators to lakehead terminals for immediate transfer to seaboard when navigation opens in the spring.

[DOT] (3:10 p.m.)

The board is of the opinion that this action is necessary at the present time, so that forward sales may be entered into in the near future to take advantage of the particular marketing opportunity which exists. If producer marketings are delayed under regular quotas some of the sales opportunities could be lost to our competitors. They are therefore asking that producers co-operate to the fullest extent to deliver available supplies of Durum wheat as quickly as possible.

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PC

John George Diefenbaker (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Leader of the Opposition):

That announcement was expected, because of the general situation affecting

November 28, 1966 COMMONS

Durum wheat. May I point out once again that what the minister has said covers merely a small segment of this problem. What the western farmers want to know is this: What is to be done about increasing the quotas with respect to No. 1 and No. 2 wheat, which were produced in such large quantities this year?

There are areas where wheat is all piled up, and where no movement is taking place at all. This is the situation in which the wheat board should be interested, now, in order that the western farmer shall not find himself with wheat piling up in his granary, while terminal elevators are virtually unused and quotas are set as such a low level that he is denied reasonable means of meeting the ordinary items of expenditure with which he is faced.

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November 28, 1966