May 27, 1965

LIB

George James McIlraith (President of the Privy Council; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllrailh:

It applies to one month.

[Mr. Aiken.l

[DOT] (10.00 p.m.)

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
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PROCEEDINGS ON ADJOURNMENT MOTION


A motion to adjourn the House under Provisional Standing Order 39A deemed to have been moved.


CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION- RESOLUTION OF PROTEST FROM KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS

RA

Gérard Laprise

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Gerard Laprise (Chapleau):

Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, I put a question to the Secretary of State (Mr. Lamontagne), in his capacity as minister responsible for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, a state-owned corporation which is in a poor state. I wanted to know whether he meant to take a stand in view of the many protests he is receiving from all sides.

A few days ago, the Supreme Council of the Knights of Columbus, while holding a convention in Ste. Adele, passed a resolution of protest against the C.B.C. from which I should like to quote a few excerpts:

It is resolved that a strong protest he made to the Secretary of State against the C.B.C.'s policy of allowing fellow-traveller leftists, agnostics, terrorists and other trouble-makers to promote, on certain programs, class struggles and contempt for religious, civil and legal authorities.

It is resolved that the federal government be asked to set up within the C.B.C. a censorship board to remove from the public networks programs which condone crime, violence, immorality in all its forms.

Mr. Speaker, the Order of the Knights of Columbus has in Canada more than 125,000 members who represent almost a million people and is recognized as a serious organization which fights for the respect and maintenance of order, understanding and common sense.

The taxpayers are simply asking for an answer from the Secretary of State. Will they get it? A few days previously, the magazine Aufourd'hui Quebec, a very dynamic and widely read publication, even if it is still quite young, published on the activities of the C.B.C. a detailed and well documented article entitled: A crown corporation in poor shape.

Mr. Gilles Dandurand, director of the magazine, begins his article by asking a question, and I quote:

To His Excellency Governor General Vanier, who is above Mr. Pearson;

To Prime Minister Pearson, who is above Mr. Maurice Lamontagne;

To Mr. Maurice Lamontagne, who is Mr. Ouimet's boss;

May 27, 1965 COMMONS

To federal members of Parliament-

And here is the question:

Are you aware that the C.B.C., a state Corporation, is in "bad shape"?

Will you keep on using the money we have honestly earned to finance "numerous T.V. programs bent on systematically and deliberately running down the highest principles of Christian faith and morals", as the bishops of Quebec stated on November 16, 1959?

During those six years, this "deliberate running down of the highest principles of Christian faith and morals" continues to be no less deliberate and more and more systematically organized... So...?

Those who are footing the bill are only asking you for an answer.

Is it asking too much?

Does the Secretary of State recall an article published in the newspaper Le Soleil last March 24 referring to a statement signed by 76,000 Canadian women, most of whom were mothers, and which read as follows:

We are asking our representatives to put an end to the control exercised by a minority over the C.B.C. to spread perversion, pornography, free love, blasphemy, use of drugs, violence and crime-

Mr. Secretary of State, those who pay are merely asking for an answer. Is it too much to ask?

Only a few days ago, Hon. Frederic Dorion, chief justice of the Quebec Superior Court, condemned television as being too often the best school of perversity and immorality. Speaking before a group of lawyers Judge Dorion said:

Unfortunately, I am also aware that all those attempts to keep order and protect morals are too often opposed by certain publicity media which, like television, frequently present programs so immoral and indecent that they stir up the indignation of decent viewers, especially fathers and mothers.

This communication medium which has now come into most of our homes and makes its way there by both word and picture, has become a need and an extraordinary means of propaganda. Whoever wishes to safeguard Christian principles which none the less are still the basis of our society, may but look at and listen to scenes we witness several times during the week, and he will realize that television is often the greatest school of perversion and immorality, particularly because it is introduced almost forcibly into our homes. For instance can the use of firearms be promoted without personal risks? Is it proper to show the feats and skill of bandits, to demonstrate so often the triumph of violence and fraud, even when it is helping justice, to show the indecency of beatniks and of eccentric girls who resort to provocative gestures?

Justice Dorion, a man in a position of authority, is well placed to see the nefarious effect television can have on our youth and on those who are not so young.

Many other people have protested to the C.B.C. and, in this house hon. members have, 22620-1131

DEBATES 1757

Proceedings on Adjournment Motion on several occasions, asked the Secretary of State to make a cleanup within the corporation, starting with its head if necessary.

Mr. Speaker, I cannot conceive that a man who earns $40,000 a year and who has an annual budget of $100 million is unable to ensure that the picture and sound on television are favourable to healthy education and recreation instead of being conducive to perversion.

I want to know what position the Secretary of State intends to take-

Topic:   CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION- RESOLUTION OF PROTEST FROM KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS
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LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order. I regret to interrupt the hon. Member but his time has expired.

Topic:   CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION- RESOLUTION OF PROTEST FROM KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS
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LIB

John B. Stewart (Parliamentary Secretary to the Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. J. B. Stewart (Parliamentary Secretary to the Secretary of State):

Mr. Speaker, when I read the question asked on May 26 by the hon. Member, I thought there was some error in the English translation. I turned to the French translation and I found in fact there was no error. Listening to the question that he raised tonight on this adjournment debate, I see he does have some misapprehensions concerning the relationship between the Secretary of State and the C.B.C.

The hon. Member is labouring under the assumption that the Secretary of State is responsible for the operation of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in the same way that Ministers are responsible in this House for the operation of their several departments. In law and in fact the Secretary of State acts as a medium between the corporation and this House. Consequently he is not in a position to give directions to the C.B.C. in relation to programming.

I can assure the hon. Member that the Secretary of State will serve as a faithful medium in transmitting the views he has expressed this evening to the President of the C.B.C. and other responsible officials of that corporation.

Topic:   CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION- RESOLUTION OF PROTEST FROM KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS
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TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY-NEW BRUNSWICK -PROPOSED CHANGE IN ROUTE

PC

Hugh John Flemming

Progressive Conservative

Hon. H. J. Flemming (Victoria-Carleion):

Mr. Speaker, the question which I posed to the Minister of Public Works this afternoon was inspired by a telegram received from the Bath Chamber of Commerce with reference to the routing of the Trans-Canada Highway between Florenceville and Perth, New Brunswick, and the decision which had been suggested to them as having been final as a result of the questions which they had put to the Government of New Brunswick-and the

May 27, 1965

1758 COMMONS

Proceedings on Adjournment Motion answers received-in spite of the fact that they had made a submission to the Minister stating this matter was of extreme importance to their district, involving expenditures in excess of several millions of dollars, and they were assured the question was under review by the Department here.

Their request was that before granting approval to the west side route, they felt the general public interest rendered it imperative that a top level official of the Department of Public Works be sent to evaluate that section of the highway both as to cost of construction and service to the public.

[DOT] (10:10 p.m.)

In explanation I might say I think it would be of interest to the House to know that the suggestion that the highway be diverted to the west side of the river involves the crossing of the river and proceeding along the river to the village of Andover, which is exactly opposite Perth. This puts the highway through a corridor which, beginning at Crossville at a distance of seven or eight miles gradually lessens in width until at Perth it is probably several miles in length, as against the original plan to follow the river on the east side through the various built up towns, or villages might be the better description, of Florenceville, Bristol, Bath, Upper Kent, Kilburn, Perth, and so on.

The request made to the Minister is that a top level official of the Department be sent to investigate the situation. I am very conscious of the fact that bridges are necessary across the river at Florenceville and I have nothing against the building of a highway on the west side. Nevertheless, the built up part of the area is on the other side of the river and before a final decision is made I think the Minister should comply with the request made to him so that careful consideration is given to building this road through that part of the area in which the greatest number of people would be served along the route of the highway.

The western side of the Saint John River is just a corridor to the Maine border, as I said, whereas on the eastern side when you get down to Bristol you run into the road between Bristol and the village of Juniper, down the Miramichi to Newcastle and Chatham. It seems to me that the local needs of the public would best be served by carefully investigating the contention of the Bath Chamber of Commerce that a route on the east side of the river should be followed. This is a reasonable request. The Bath Cham-

ber of Commerce is certainly a non-partisan body with no interest except the general interest of the public. I hope the Minister will see his way clear to comply with it.

I should also call attention to the fact that on the east side of the river below Perth six or seven miles of the Trans-Canada highway have already been constructed. This paving would have to be abandoned if the route on the west side were adhered to. In the light of all these considerations it appears that to change the route to the western side of the river at this late date would not only be unduly expensive, involving a good many millions of dollars in extra expenditure, but that it would also result in inconvenience to the general public and to the traffic bound for the eastern side of the province.

Then there is the highway from Bristol to Newcastle, a route which as far as local interest is concerned is of tremendous importance. It seems to me that a request by an independent body such as the Bath Chamber of Commerce to the federal Minister should be given the consideration which I believe it merits. I believe that the building of the Trans-Canada highway on the eastern side of the river will develop the local community; it will take care of the local traffic; it will also take care of the traffic, as I have said, that is somewhat greater as far as volume is concerned and also so far as general destination is concerned. Then in regard to all these matters there is the question of cost. I believe investigation will show that the expenditure will be much greater-

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY-NEW BRUNSWICK -PROPOSED CHANGE IN ROUTE
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LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order. I regret that I must interrupt the hon. Member, but his time has expired.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY-NEW BRUNSWICK -PROPOSED CHANGE IN ROUTE
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PC

Hugh John Flemming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Flemming (Victoria-Carleton):

I just have two or three more words, Mr. Speaker. I believe it will be more expensive to go to the west side than to the east side.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY-NEW BRUNSWICK -PROPOSED CHANGE IN ROUTE
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LIB

George Roy McWilliam (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. G. Roy McWilliam (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Public Works):

Mr. Speaker, in connection with the matter raised by the hon. Member for Victoria-Carleton (Mr. Flemming), the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Cardin) received a telegram today from the President of the Bath, New Brunswick, Chamber of Commerce. The telegram stated that the Chamber of Commerce was notified by the Premier of New Brunswick under date of May 19 that it was the intention to construct the Florenceville-Perth section of the Trans-Canada Highway on the west side of the Saint John River. The Bath Chamber

May 27, 1965

COMMONS DEBATES 1759

of Commerce advanced the view that excessive expenditures of several millions of dollars would be involved if this section of the Trans-Canada Highway was constructed on the west side of the Saint John River. The telegram, as the hon. Member has stated, requested that an official of the Federal Department of Public Works evaluate the cost of construction and service to the public on this proposed section of the route.

An official of the Federal Department of Public Works has made an evaluation of the proposed west side route vis-a-vis the east side route, and comparative costs were favourable to the west side route by some $230,000, and also the west side route is capable of being developed.

Under the Trans-Canada Highway Act the Provincial Governments of the provinces concerned select the route. The Federal Department of Public Works examines the plans submitted, takes into consideration the costs and other related factors and makes sure that the Trans-Canada Highway standards are met and maintained. This procedure was followed when a proposed west side route was advanced. It is not necessary to review the general policy of the Trans-Canada Highway Act, nor does the three-minute time limit at my disposal permit this to be done. However, the hon. Member who raised this question is well versed in this connection, as he held the portfolio of Public Works in the Province of New Brunswick when he was the Premier of that Province, and I have noted the points he has raised. I am not as familiar with the geography as he is, and maybe he has some good, valid points-

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY-NEW BRUNSWICK -PROPOSED CHANGE IN ROUTE
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LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order, please.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY-NEW BRUNSWICK -PROPOSED CHANGE IN ROUTE
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LIB

George Roy McWilliam (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. McWilliam:

I am just finishing, Mr. Speaker.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY-NEW BRUNSWICK -PROPOSED CHANGE IN ROUTE
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LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

The hon. Member's time has expired.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY-NEW BRUNSWICK -PROPOSED CHANGE IN ROUTE
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LIB

George Roy McWilliam (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. McWilliam:

However, the points raised by the hon. Member will be brought to the Minister's attention immediately.

Topic:   TRANS-CANADA HIGHWAY-NEW BRUNSWICK -PROPOSED CHANGE IN ROUTE
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AGRICULTURE-BRITISH COLUMBIA-LOSSES SUFFERED BY FRUIT GROWERS

NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):

Mr. Speaker, after 40 years spent as a tree fruit grower in British Columbia, I am naturally well versed in the problems that face the tree fruit producers in that province and am sympathetic to their proposals. It was on that account and at the request of several persons that I inquired of the Minister what

Proceedings on Adjournment Motion was being done to assist these tree fruit producers at the present time. I must say, Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to the Chair, that I simply cannot understand why I was ruled out of order. I was simply inquiring of a Minister whether an investigation had been conducted and whether consideration was being given to amending the Farm Credit Corporation Act. However, I must take my medicine and stay here tonight, and I apologize to the hon. Member for Hull for keeping him so late out of bed.

[DOT] (10:20 p.m.)

I asked the following question on the Orders of the Day today:

Has the Minister held an investigation of the circumstances that exist with respect to the losses suffered from frost by certain fruit growers in British Columbia this year? Is consideration being given to amendment to the Farm Credit Corporation Act to cover this unexpected and unfortunate situation?

I had some personal knowledge of this, Mr. Speaker.

The fruit growers of British Columbia are concerned with two problems at this time, in addition to many others. First is the unexpected frost damage caused to stone fruits in British Columbia this spring; the second is the necessity of changing certain varieties of fruit, apples in particular, because of change in tastes.

This subject was discussed at the annual convention of the British Columbia Fruit Growers Association held on January 19, 20 and 21, 1965. I am just going to mention briefly the resolution which was adopted by that convention. It was entitled: "Financial Assistance Program - Keremeos-Cawston'', which was the local which submitted it. The resolution reads:

Whereas there is no act or arrangement at present under which fruit growers may borrow long term, low interest funds to renovate their orchards by cutting out trees of low marketable varieties or on low volume rootstocks and replacing the removed trees with varieties acceptable to the consuming public and on high volume type rootstocks, and

Whereas many orchards were planted 30 to 40 years ago and the production has fallen to 500 to 700 bushels per acre of average to low quality fruit and are therefore uneconomical, and

Whereas it is estimated in the United States that production of 1500 bushels of high quality apples per acre must be produced in the years to come to meet competition

Therefore be it resolved that the British Columbia Fruit Growers Association approach the Canadian Government and request that the Farm Credit Corporation or other Government plan be amended to the extent that loans be made available to fruit farmers to enable them to cut out all or a part of their trees, if thought necessary, or replant with ac-

May 27, 1965

1760 COMMONS

Proceedings on Adjournment Motion ceptable market varieties on quick bearing high volume rootstocks, said loans to cover not only the removing of old trees and replanting of new ones, but the continued care and maintenance of the new trees until they have grown to an economic size, and moreover funds be loaned to take care of the livelihood of the farmer to enable him to carry out the above renovations.

That is one problem that has concerned them, particularly in recent years owing to changing market conditions. The other one which I mentioned before is the concern over the effects of frost on stone fruits grown in the southeastern portion of British Columbia.

I know the Minister is interested in the problem and is sympathetic to it, and that the officials of his department have been investigating both aspects of the problem as presented to the department by the British Columbia Fruit Growers Association.

It was on that account that I asked my question, because they are anxious to know whether the Government is giving consideration to amending the legislation or to providing some assistance with respect to the losses being incurred as a result of fruit damage this year.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE-BRITISH COLUMBIA-LOSSES SUFFERED BY FRUIT GROWERS
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LIB

Alexis Pierre Caron (Parliamentary Secretary to the Postmaster General)

Liberal

Mr. Alexis Caron (Parliamentary Secretary to Postmaster General):

Mr. Speaker, I

am sure the hon. Member will accept the fact that all Members on this side of the House are really sorry for these growers in British

Columbia as a result of the fruit losses they have suffered this year. Such a matter as this is generally a matter for the Provincial Government, and we know that the Provincial Government is at the present time making a survey to assess the extent of the damage caused. Whenever they find it necessary they may come to the Federal Government for help and they will be well received.

In respect of the second point, the hon. Member spoke about an amendment to the law. I do not know whether or not it is the intention of the Government to propose an amendment this year, but I can assure him that the Farm Credit Corporation has been in close touch with the situation facing fruit growers in British Columbia. This matter was discussed today by the Chairman of the Corporation with the branch manager in British Columbia. Those borrowers who are unable to make payments to the Corporation without undue hardship, as a result of losses beyond their control, will be permitted to postpone the payment of their instalments. Consideration as to any future policies the Corporation may adopt must await a further and more detailed assessment of the situation which has developed.

Motion agreed to and the House adjourned at 10.29 p.m.

Friday, May 28, 1965

Topic:   AGRICULTURE-BRITISH COLUMBIA-LOSSES SUFFERED BY FRUIT GROWERS
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May 27, 1965