May 5, 1965

PC

Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Marcel Lambert (Edmonton West):

Mr. Speaker, I think it will be clear from the record, particularly as indicated by or insisted upon by the Minister of Transport when he was on this side of the House, that the phrase "the usual reservations" is insufficient and that the reservations must be clearly stated. [DOT] (3:00 p.m.)

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
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LIB

John B. Stewart (Parliamentary Secretary to the Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Stewart:

Mr. Speaker, the reservation in mind in this case concerns correspondence, if any, from other Governments.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
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?

Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

Are these motions agreed to subject to the reservation as expressed?

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
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PC

Paul Raymond Martineau

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Martineau:

Mr. Speaker, I would ask a question of the Parliamentary Secretary. Will the Government make a request to the Government of France in regard to these papers?

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
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LIB

John B. Stewart (Parliamentary Secretary to the Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Stewart:

Mr. Speaker, I think the Government of France is not involved in any of the motions now under discussion. I should like to suggest that motion No. 8 be transferred for debate.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
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?

Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

Transferred for debate.

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LIB

John B. Stewart (Parliamentary Secretary to the Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Stewart:

Would Your Honour please call motions 1, 3, 10, 17 and 20. I ask that the remaining motions be allowed to stand.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
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CORRESPONDENCE RESPECTING AUTOMOBILE AGREEMENT


Motion No. 1-Mr. Hales: That an humble address be presented to His Excellency praying that he will cause to be laid before this house a copy of all letters and other documents since the 1st day of January, 1964, exchanged between the government of Canada and the government of the United States in connection with the agreement providing for duty free trade within the automobile industry.


LIB

Charles Mills (Bud) Drury (Minister of Industry; Minister of Defence Production)

Liberal

Hon. C. M. Drury (Minister of Industry):

Mr. Speaker, the agreement itself to which this motion refers has already been tabled some time ago. The letters and documents in question are working papers relating to successive drafts of the Canada-United States automotive agreement exchanged during the negotiation of this agreement. These are, therefore, privileged documents relating to the interim negotiating positions of the two parties, and it would neither be in the public interest nor in accordance with the normal practice to reveal such material. I would ask, therefore, if the hon. gentleman would withdraw his motion in accordance with the usual practice. I will have somewhat similar remarks to make about motion No. 17.

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PC

Alfred Dryden Hales

Progressive Conservative

Mr. A. D. Hales (Wellington South):

Mr. Speaker, I think Your Honour will realize the great importance of my request and will agree with me in this regard. Although it may be somewhat unusual I would ask you to call for the yeas and nays.

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LIB

Charles Mills (Bud) Drury (Minister of Industry; Minister of Defence Production)

Liberal

Mr. Drury:

Mr. Speaker, I would ask that the motion be transferred for debate.

Topic:   CORRESPONDENCE RESPECTING AUTOMOBILE AGREEMENT
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?

Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

Transferred for debate.

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?

Some hon. Members:

No.

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PC

John George Diefenbaker (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Leader of the Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, this transferring for debate is becoming a system that has all the elements of concealment. We never have the opportunity to get these documents. The House should have the opportunity of voting. This rule was never intended to be used by the Government to cover up its denial of in-

May 5, 1965

formation, and I take the strongest possible objection. We are talking about the reform of Parliament, yet on a matter so important-as the hon. Member for Wellington South has said, a matter that is being reviewed today in the United States Congress-this Parliament is to be denied information respecting something that is causing fear in the hearts of Canadians in every part of this country. We want to know what passed between these Governments so we will understand why Canadians who want to buy cars are discriminated against, and how Canadian manufacturers can sell cars manufactured in Canada in the United States and compete in that country.

Topic:   CORRESPONDENCE RESPECTING AUTOMOBILE AGREEMENT
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?

Some hon. Members:

Order.

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Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. In the circumstances may I call the attention of the House to Standing Order 47 which reads as follows:

Notices of Motions for the Production of Papers shall be placed on the order paper under the heading "Notices of motions for the Production of Papers". All such notices, when called, shall be forthwith disposed of; but if on any such motion a debate be desired by the Member proposing it or by a Minister of the Crown, the motion will be transferred by the Clerk to the order of "Notices of Motion (papers)".

Topic:   CORRESPONDENCE RESPECTING AUTOMOBILE AGREEMENT
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PC

John George Diefenbaker (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

Mr. Speaker, I point out the fact that we are to be muzzled in securing information.

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?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh.

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PC

John George Diefenbaker (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

Oh, it is commonplace over there. That is what they have been doing, and they are doing it regularly under the subterfuge of this order. I want to know why Parliament should be denied this information. Why do they not vote on the matter? If they say we are not entitled to it let them vote us down, but why do they place us in a position where we never can debate this matter?

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May 5, 1965