March 25, 1965

RA

Gilles Grégoire

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Gilles Gregoire (Lapointe):

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to join with the others and pay tribute to those who are today celebrating their 25th anniversary in the House of Commons.

Twenty five years is a long time, but I am sure it must bring back fond memories to those concerned.

We believe those five hon. members of the House of Commons have well served their land, their country, and have worked with sincerity and dedication for the interest of the people. We wish them many more years among us for we, the younger members, do benefit from their experience and this helps and encourages us to pursue our political careers.

Topic:   TRIBUTES TO MEMBERS COMPLETING 25 YEARS OF SERVICE
Permalink
PC

John George Diefenbaker (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Leader of the Opposition):

Mr. Speaker, I doubt whether I have ever risen in this house with the same feelings that I have today. It is difficult to express to you, sir, what your words mean to me, and I know as well to my colleagues whom the house has honoured today in a way that I have never seen equalled in the years that I have been here.

I say to the Prime Minister that his words bring to me a re-emphasis of the pride that those of us who sit in the House of Commons understand. People outside cannot appreciate how from day to day we can face one another in the most difficult forum of all and retain a feeling of admiration for those who do not see eye to eye with oneself. There is no other legislative body like it, having to the same extent the tradition of the House of Commons based on the British model. Last week was the seven hundredth anniversary of the first parliament at Westminster, which has been our model since. That was the parliament that brought together the love of liberty of the Anglo-Saxons and the dedication to freedom of the Normans of French origin. We bring these two together within this institution.

All I can say is that occasions such as this, where warmth takes for a time the place of the harshness of debate, add to one's pride in this great institution. We stack our weapons and substitute verbal garlands. We seek to make parliament worth while.

I also want to refer to the dean of parliament, a parliamentarian who as the dean of the five new members will be for them a second Dizzy Dean, a great philosopher and a connoisseur of words.

The Prime Minister today epitomized the finest traditions of parliament when he added the query, what would the House of Commons be without me. I was reminded of an occasion when that question was asked by a former prime minister, Right Hon. Arthur Meighen, some years after he had been in the House of Commons but before he went to the Senate. He had met with that great wit of parliament, S. W. Jacobs, K.C., in Toronto, and asked him "What is it like in parliament without me?" to which Mr. Jacobs replied "It is like Hades would be without Satan". That is one way of describing parliament.

Sir, I can only say this, and this is not a swan song. I hope to continue in the days ahead in this house, to join with all members

20220-812J

Tributes to Members

of all parties in doing my part with them to maintain and preserve the freedom that is ours. From the bottom of my heart, sir, I thank you for your words on behalf of the house. To the Prime Minister I can only say that the kindliness and generosity that he has shown is entirely reciprocated in every way. To my hon. friend the parliamentary authority in this house, the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles), and to the hon. members representing the Social Credit party and the Creditistes I say, thank you all.

Topic:   TRIBUTES TO MEMBERS COMPLETING 25 YEARS OF SERVICE
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   TRIBUTES TO MEMBERS COMPLETING 25 YEARS OF SERVICE
Permalink
LIB

George James McIlraith (President of the Privy Council; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Hon. G. J. Mcllraiih (President of the Privy Council):

Mr. Speaker, it has not been very often during the last 25 years that I have found myself joined with the Leader of the Opposition in action by this house, but I now desire to express my appreciation to all hon. members in the house for their generous attitude today toward those of us who have been here for some years.

I recall in those early years that during an election campaign, local members who supported today's official opposition party said that I was too young to be a member of the House of Commons. Today I feel very grateful for that expression to which they gave vent in those years.

I find the statements today rather refreshing, because it has seemed to me that in the last few months or years it has been a rather popular pastime outside the house to attack this institution. My observation, for what it is worth, has been that, in spite of our weaknesses and suggestions that we are unable to perform the business efficiently at times- in spite of a desire by some of us to have reforms made-the institution itself is the best institution I know for operating the government of a country. It provides that degree of liberty and freedom of the individual subject that is required and, I am sure, desired by all hon. members. I cannot help feeling that nothing I have seen in my life leads me to doubt for one moment that this is the system which best guarantees the right of the individual to freedom and liberty.

So today, when I hear the house express itself so unanimously and so kindly, I find it refreshing to see the capacity of the house to come together and reveal its own inner self. I should like, with great warmth of feeling, to thank my colleagues in this chamber for their very kind expression.

Tributes to Members

Topic:   TRIBUTES TO MEMBERS COMPLETING 25 YEARS OF SERVICE
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   TRIBUTES TO MEMBERS COMPLETING 25 YEARS OF SERVICE
Permalink
PC

Lewis Elston Cardiff

Progressive Conservative

Mr. L. E. Cardiff (Huron):

Mr. Speaker, my first words will be to thank you for your kind sentiments. I have, throughout the years, tried to be a man amongst men, and I have found the House of Commons a very good place to attempt that. I was brought up a farmer and I am still a farmer. In those days we had to work very hard. I was not very old when I tried to take a man's place.

Then when I came into parliament I found a different sort of work that had to be done. I think the most difficult job I tried to do after coming here was being whip of the largest government party we have ever had in Canada, 208 members. If you do not think that is a man's job, just try it. I am sure the whip on the government side right now with 130 members thinks he has a man's job. It is very easy to get along with men who are men, but even amongst members of parliament we sometimes get a few who are rather difficult to handle. During my term of office as whip I only had trouble with one man out of the 208, whom I had to put in his place, and I really put him there pretty hard. It did him a lot of good and I got a good deal of satisfaction out of doing it.

Topic:   TRIBUTES TO MEMBERS COMPLETING 25 YEARS OF SERVICE
Permalink
?

An hon. Member:

Name him.

Topic:   TRIBUTES TO MEMBERS COMPLETING 25 YEARS OF SERVICE
Permalink
PC

Lewis Elston Cardiff

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Cardiff:

No, I will not name him. Old as I am, I should like to remind my friend sitting across from me not to start something he cannot finish.

I should like to thank everybody for the treatment I have received in this House of Commons, from all sides of the house, during the 25 years I have been a member. I think I have friends on all sides of the house. I want to thank everybody for putting up with me for that length of time.

Topic:   TRIBUTES TO MEMBERS COMPLETING 25 YEARS OF SERVICE
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   TRIBUTES TO MEMBERS COMPLETING 25 YEARS OF SERVICE
Permalink
LIB

George Ewart Nixon

Liberal

Mr. G. E. Nixon (Algoma West):

Mr. Speaker, may I join with the others in thanking you for your kind words. It is a privilege and an honour to become a member of parliament. It is a much greater privilege and honour to be a member for 25 years. I was asked this morning what seemed to stick out in my mind most during that time. I think I recall the first campaign best, because at that time I recall having to campaign through my riding travelling by train, by car, by horse and cutter, by snowmobile and by snowplane. The night before the election we had one of the worst storms in our area. So I remember that election campaign of 25 years ago.

[Mr. Mcllraith.l

May I just say that I feel we are fortunate in living in a democracy where we have the freedom to vote and elect a member of parliament or to leave him at home. I think we are most fortunate when we consider that. May I say how grateful I am for all the friends I have made here and to express again my thanks for the kind words and thoughts on the 25th anniversary of the five of us.

Topic:   TRIBUTES TO MEMBERS COMPLETING 25 YEARS OF SERVICE
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   TRIBUTES TO MEMBERS COMPLETING 25 YEARS OF SERVICE
Permalink

PROCEDURE

SEVENTEENTH, EIGHTEENTH, NINETEENTH AND TWENTIETH REPORTS OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE

?

Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

I have the honour to present, in English and in French, the seventeenth, eighteenth, nineteenth and twentieth reports of the special committee on procedure and organization.

The seventeenth report is largely concerned with improvements in Hansard and other parliamentary publications. The eighteenth report recommends the revision of standing order 65 to provide for a new structure of standing committees. The nineteenth report provides for the referral of estimates to the new standing committees and for a time limit on the discussion of the main estimates in committee of supply. The recommendations contained in both the eighteenth and nineteenth reports would be on a trial basis for the duration of the next session of this parliament.

The twentieth report recommends the extension of the use of electronic recording and transcribing equipment.

Topic:   PROCEDURE
Subtopic:   SEVENTEENTH, EIGHTEENTH, NINETEENTH AND TWENTIETH REPORTS OF SPECIAL COMMITTEE
Permalink

AGRICULTURE

ANNOUNCEMENT OF NEW DAIRY POLICY

LIB

Harry William Hays (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Hon. Harry W. Hays (Minister of Agriculture):

Mr. Speaker, I should like at this time to announce our new dairy policy. Just before I do that I should like to say one word as the youngest colt in this house. I have never seen the house just like this, so it seems to me I am learning something. I should like, as I say, to announce our new dairy policy which has to do with culture, the greatest of all cultures, agriculture.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE
Subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NEW DAIRY POLICY
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE
Subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NEW DAIRY POLICY
Permalink
LIB

Harry William Hays (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Hays:

This pertains to the new dairy policy without which none of us could live.

The objectives of our Canadian dairy policy are twofold. The policy is designed to provide

dairy farmers operating economic units with an adequate income, while at the same time assuring the Canadian consumer a constant supply of the highest quality dairy products at stable prices which will ensure optimum consumption.

Because of its geography and climate Canada is a relatively high cost dairy producing country. Except for certain specialty products, such as mature Cheddar cheese, we cannot hope to be a significant competitor on world markets with dairy products from countries with lower production costs arising from milder climates. Because of our climatic disadvantages in dairy production it would be unrealistic to provide a level of support on all milk produced that could result in surplus production and a possible return to a costly accumulation of stocks.

A further objective of a national dairy policy must therefore be to maintain a reasonable balance between production and disappearance of milk and dairy products, account being taken of export possibilities and of imports. To this end it is proposed that government supports will apply only to domestic utilization as related to a base period. The policy will also recognize the interest of Canada's trading partners in the Canadian market for dairy products, and will permit imports to share in future market growth.

Last year Canada imported a record 17 million pounds of cheese. This was more than balanced by Canada's growing cheese exports of over 30 million pounds.

As an efficient exporter of agricultural products like cheese and wheat, Canada has a vital interest in obtaining better access to foreign markets, and in its own policies must therefore recognize the corresponding interest of other efficient agricultural exporting countries in being able to compete for a share of the future growth of the Canadian market.

To attain these objectives, and as part of the government's long range dairy policy, legislation to establish a Canadian dairy commission will be introduced at the earliest possible opportunity. This commission, working in co-operation with the provinces, would have responsibility for the over-all relationship between governments and the dairy industry.

The interim policy, to come into effect on May 1 for an 11 month period pending the establishment of the Canadian dairy commission, will follow the principles of the long range policy. The interim policy is being put into effect on May 1 for 11 months in order

Dairy Policy

to facilitate a widely supported change In the dairy support year to align it more closely to the milk production cycle. Starting next year the dairy year will begin on April 1 instead of May 1.

Two separate and distinct programs will be instituted. The first will provide for a basic support through a deficiency payment plan, coupled with direct subsidy and export assistance. The other will comprise a direct supplementary payment to producers. The over-all effect is intended to be a national average price for manufacturing milk used domestically and based on 1964-65 production of $3.50 per hundredweight.

The agricultural stabilization board will be authorized to provide an effective support level of 64 cents per pound for creamery butter, basis Montreal and Toronto. This level will be maintained, as it was last year, by authorizing payments to producers equivalent to the difference between the support level of 64 cents and the board's buying and selling prices. As at present, these payments will first be made by the processing plants to the producers. The plants will then be reimbursed by the board. This action, along with export assistance, is expected to maintain an average factory price to producers of manufacturing milk of between $3.10 and $3.20 per hundredweight.

At the same time the board will determine actual prices paid to producers, by processors, for manufacturing milk and will be authorized to make a deficiency payment direct to producers, equivalent to the amount by which the national average price for manufacturing milk falls below a prescribed support level of $3.30 per hundredweight. In other words, the goal of the deficiency payment plan will be a national average of $3.30 per hundredweight for manufacturing milk.

In accordance with the over-all policy, this price guarantee of $3.30 is to be extended only to that portion of manufactured milk used domestically. Accordingly the amount of any deficiency payment will be reduced by the cost of export assistance. This will mean that if manufacturing milk production and domestic use are in balance producers will, on the average, receive the full $3.30 per hundredweight. Should production exceed domestic use, the effective support level would in fact be reduced by the difference between the domestic price and the export price as determined by the cost of moving the surplus into export.

For example, if it were found that a national average deficiency payment of 15 cents per

Dairy Policy

hundred pounds was to be paid under this plan, and it the deductible cost of exporting surplus production amounted to 5 cents a hundred, the actual deficiency payment would be 10 cents per hundred. This follows the principle inherent in the long range plan under the proposed Canadian dairy commission that government supports should apply only to domestic utilization of Canadian production as determined by a base period.

Surplus milk produced by fluid milk shippers contributes to our total dairy stocks and hence to any amount that might need to be exported. Therefore any deduction of export costs from the deficiency payment fund would not include the cost of exporting surpluses arising from the fluid milk industry. The cost of export subsidies chargeable against the deficiency payments will be reduced by the percentage of the total supply of manufacturing milk which is represented by that produced as a by-product of the fluid milk industry.

In order to provide comparable assistance to cream shippers, any deficiency payment to shippers of manufacturing milk will also be made to cream shippers on an equivalent basis.

During the coming dairy year, pending establishment of the Canadian dairy commission there will be a supplementary payment to producers. It will approximate, in total, the difference between the $3.30 support level and $3.50 per hundred of milk, based on 1964-65 production of manufacturing milk.

Producers who during the base period marketed less than 10,000 pounds of milk or an equivalent amount of cream will not be eligible for the payment. Since that is less than the production of two very average cows or one good cow, the government does not believe they can rightly be considered dairy farmers.

In order to ensure a relatively higher level of assistance to our many eligible smaller farmers, this payment will be at a rate per hundred pounds that decreases as production rises. For eligible producers, that is, those marketing at least 10,000 pounds of milk last year, the rate of payment will be 25 cents per hundredweight for the first 47,999 pounds of milk marketed. It will be 20 cents per hundredweight for the amount between 48,000 and 95,999 pounds, and 10 cents per hundredweight for all milk marketed in excess of 95,999 pounds.

Thus a producer who in 1964-65 marketed 50,000 pounds of milk will receive a lump sum payment of $124. A producer who mar-

keted 100,000 pounds of milk will receive $220, and a producer who marketed 200,000 pounds of milk will receive $320. The estimated average payment per producer across Canada is slightly over $100. Payments will be made to cream shippers on the same scale, assuming an average fat test of 3.5 per cent. As in the past, producers who normally participate in the fluid milk market will not be eligible for direct subsidy payments nor will they be eligible for the supplementary payment.

The application of the program to major dairy pool areas will be consistent with the interpretation of manufacturing milk which has been used as a basis for the support program for the past two years.

In the interests of our producers I think I should remind them that under the new program it is as important as ever for them to negotiate the best possible price for their milk from the processing plants. The deficiency payment will be based, as all are, on a national average price obtained by dividing total returns to all eligible producers by the total number of eligible producers. Those producers who make good deals with the processing plants will lose none of the benefit of their own private enterprise. If, for example, the deficiency payment came to 15 cents per hundred pounds, the producer who averages $3.20 per hundred from his plant will average a total return of $3.35 per hundred. On the other hand, the producer selling to the plant for only, say, $3.10 per hundred would gross $3.25.

Complete details of the program are being developed by the agricultural stabilization board and will be made known to producers and the trade at an appropriate time.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE
Subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NEW DAIRY POLICY
Permalink
PC

Clément Vincent

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Clement Vincent (Nicolei-Yamaska):

Mr. Speaker, you will admit that it is very difficult at this moment to assess the scope of the new dairy policy which the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Hays) just announced. One would have needed an IBM machine in order to note all the data which the minister gave this house and make the necessary calculations to determine exactly the benefits the milk producers of this will derive from industrial milk during the 1965-66 dairy year.

At the outset, and on behalf of my party, I would like to point out to the minister that the dairy producers only asked for a minimum price of $3.50 per hundredweight of industrial milk shipped to processing factories.

We do not yet know if the dairy producer will get the requested minimum price, that is $3.50 per hundredweight, but the Canadian federation of agriculture, the farmers' unions and the catholic farmers' union informed us that if the price under the new dairy policy is $3.30, $3.35 or even $3.48, strong protests will be made with the government in order to get this minimum price of $3.50 which is absolutely necessary for every dairy producer.

We heard the minister mention $3.50 per hundredweight. Later he mentioned a price of $3.30, $3.35 applicable to a certain quantity of pounds of milk. But as I just said, one must make all those calculations before knowing exactly what the dairy producers will derive from this new policy.

As the minister mentioned the possibility of establishing a Canadian dairy commission, I must add that we, on this side of the house, had already requested it and even started working on it in February 1963.

Furthermore, since then we have repeatedly requested the establishment of such a commission as soon as possible.

As a matter of fact, in July 1964, the hon. member for Qu'Appelle (Mr. Hamilton), official spokesman for the Conservative party in matters of agriculture, stated in the house:

Such an agency should be set up in Canada as soon as possible.

The hon. member for Qu'Appelle also stated in July 1964:

As 1 am aware of the cost price of milk, I would say, moreover, that any government that does not give milk producers across Canada a minimum price of $3.50 per hundredweight is unfair to that segment of the population.

That was the attitude of the Conservative party in July 1964, and we still consider this matter as most important.

Furthermore, in July 1964, we had requested a special grant of 35 cents per hundredweight of milk for last year's production, and up to 100,000 pounds. We were also requesting that this grant be paid to all milk producers in eastern Canada, for they certainly need federal assistance.

As the minister knows, 3 per cent of the total government budget will be going to agriculture. These expenditures could be increased, taking into account the importance of agriculture.

In fact, according to statistics published in the Toronto stock exchange bulletin of September 1963, agriculture accounts directly or indirectly for 40 per cent of our gross national product. Now, if, as the bulletin claims,

Dairy Policy

agriculture provides directly or indirectly work for 35 per cent of our labour force, I feel that the federal government should not hesitate to increase the appropriations of the Department of Agriculture.

Considering that the United States earmark 8.2 per cent of their budget for agriculture as compared with 3 per cent only in Canada, it is easy to understand why our budget is not as it should be.

The minister also mentioned exports. We do not know whether the government intends to restore the subsidy on cheese exports, especially to the United Kingdom, but we know that the subsidy which was 4 cents a pound at the beginning of 1963, was reduced to 3 cents a pound by the present Liberal government that same year, and then to 2 cents a pound last year.

We do not know if the government intends to restore the 4-cent subsidy. We ask the Minister of Agriculture to see to it that it is restored.

Last year we shipped 30 million pounds of cheese to the United Kingdom. We could export much more because if we consider that in the first decade of this century we were selling almost 100 million pounds of cheese, there is certainly a need to find foreign markets which are there, close at hand, in order to help agriculture throughout Canada as well as the economy of the country.

In closing may I say that we will study closely that new dairy policy and that if the minister or the government do not provide for the country's dairy farmers a minimum price of $3.50 per hundredweight, the Conservative party will not be satisfied, nor will the dairy farmer. I can assure the minister that if that minimum goal is not reached a congress of the dairy industry will be held here in Ottawa in April.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE
Subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF NEW DAIRY POLICY
Permalink

March 25, 1965