July 13, 1964

LIB

Guy Favreau (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Favreau:

In reply to my hon. friend I may say that this is one question upon which I have received, and my predecessor as well, a relatively large amount of correspondence. It is a matter, of course, which entails so many ramifications it was quite difficult to deal with it in this bill. Furthermore, I must say that I have my views as to future amendments of the Judges Act. It is my intention to proceed in as organized a fashion as possible by asking the attorneys general of the various provinces to provide me, before a set date in any session, their representations as to the plans of their respective provinces concerning the judges.

To come back to the suggestion that has been made, I can only assure the hon. member

that I have given very serious consideration to the matter. I must be very frank and advise also that because no solution has been arrived at as yet, we could not proceed with the matter in this bill.

Topic:   JUDGES ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR SALARIES FOR ADDITIONAL JUDGES
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L L

William Moore Benidickson (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Liberal Labour

Mr. Benidickson:

Mr. Chairman, on Friday, July 10, as reported on page 5299 of Hansard, the hon. member for Port Arthur raised the question addressed to me, I think-

Topic:   JUDGES ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR SALARIES FOR ADDITIONAL JUDGES
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LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The Chairman:

Order.

Topic:   JUDGES ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR SALARIES FOR ADDITIONAL JUDGES
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L L

William Moore Benidickson (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Liberal Labour

Mr. Benidickson:

-I wonder whether it would be proper if this were raised tonight?

Topic:   JUDGES ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR SALARIES FOR ADDITIONAL JUDGES
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LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The Chairman:

Well, perhaps it might be suggested to the minister that he raise the question with the Speaker in the chair. Shall the resolution carry?

Resolution reported and concurred in.

Mr. Favreau thereupon moved for leave to introduce Bill No. C-112, to amend the Judges Act.

Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.

Topic:   JUDGES ACT
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR SALARIES FOR ADDITIONAL JUDGES
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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

PC

Gordon Minto Churchill (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Churchill:

May I ask the leader of the house if we shall be considering the loans for students legislation tomorrow?

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
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LIB

Guy Favreau (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Favreau:

Yes, it is our intention to proceed tomorrow with the second reading and committee stage of the students loans bill and, unless third reading is agreed to immediately, we shall proceed with the second reading and committee stage of the federal-provincial fiscal arrangements bill.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
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PROCEEDINGS ON ADJOURNMENT MOTION


A motion to adjourn the house under provisional standing order 39A deemed to have been moved.


FRASER RIVER

FEDERAL PARTICIPATION IN DEVELOPMENT

NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):

Before proceeding with my question I should like the parliamentary secretary to extend my sincere congratulations to the minister on his success in connection with his prayers for rain. This is one of the most successful government policies to date.

On July 9 I asked the minister the following question:

Has the minister any information he can give the house with respect to the announcement of

Proceedings on Adjournment Motion Premier Bennett of British Columbia that his government intends to proceed with the development of the hydro potential of the Fraser river and expects the federal government's financial assistance to this end?

That question was prompted by newspaper items headed: "Bennett Adds Fraser in River Development" and "Bennett Adds Fraser River to Power Plans". In particular, it was prompted by a news editorial broadcast on July 8, 1964, over radio station CHQM in Vancouver which reads as follows:

At his breakfast meeting this morning with B.C. investment dealers, Premier Bennett had what might be called a captive audience. Not only that-the audience couldn't have been more sold on Mr. Bennett's promotion. The promotion, of course, was B.C. hydro's latest issue of small denomination parity bonds to help finance the Peace river power development.

Mr. Bennett has had tremendous success in marketing these bonds ever since he started doing it in 1959. The public has snapped them up, and the financial community quickly became convinced that it was a good way to turn a dollar.

So when Mr. Bennett said this morning that-

And they are quoting Mr. Bennett.

-"these are B.C.'s greatest years," there was no word of dissent from the investment dealers. They knew a good thing when they saw it.

I quite agree with that.

The most interesting segment of the premier's remarks, however, did not concern parity bonds. It was when he dealt with development of flood control and power producing works on the upper reaches of the Fraser river that he perked up the ears of his listeners.

The proposed development was not new-It had been recommended earlier by the Fraser river development board, a federal-provincial agency.

What was new was the premier's decision to go ahead with it right away. He was careful, in his talk to the investment men, to assure the salmon fishing industry that the value of the Fraser as a spawning river would not be diminished by the development.

But flood control in the 100 mile long Fraser delta and valley was vitally essential. The development in the upper reaches would provide this-as well as two million horsepower of electrical energy-with B.C. and Ottawa sharing equally in the flood control costs.

To the investment men, this was good news, for it meant continued expansion of B.C. hydro, and B.C. hydro would have to go to the money market to finance a good part of it.

His request for support of the investment industry to his application for Ottawa participation in the financing, can be expected to be met without qualification.

It is not certain that the fishing industry will be so enthusiastic. For at a press conference following the breakfast, the premier seemed to downgrade the fishing interests. The first public interest, Mr. Bennett said, was the protection from floods of the Fraser valley and delta, with its tremendous investment in real estate.

Topic:   FRASER RIVER
Subtopic:   FEDERAL PARTICIPATION IN DEVELOPMENT
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L L

William Moore Benidickson (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Liberal Labour

Mr. Benidickson:

Order.

5430 HOUSE OF

Proceedings on Adjournment Motion

Topic:   FRASER RIVER
Subtopic:   FEDERAL PARTICIPATION IN DEVELOPMENT
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NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. Herridge:

To the investment industry, it was "Boomer" Bennett in his best promoting style. But to the salmon industry-and to others interested in the protection of the fishery-it may have been a sign that Mr. Bennett would love to get his hands on the mighty power potential of the Fraser.

That is a very interesting comment on the part of the radio station with respect to Premier Bennett's treatment of these investment dealers. Premier Bennett is fond of investment dealers. I should like to ask the parliamentary secretary if he can inform the house whether there have been any discussions with the government of British Columbia with respect to this development. Have any proposals been made? Have there been any discussions with respect to the possibility of damage to the fishing industry? Have there been any discussions with respect to the locations of dams, as to the cost of those dams and the cost of the total flood control? Has there been any agreement with respect to proceeding in the near future with this development outlined and announced by Premier Bennett? If so, has the government of Canada indicated its intention to share in the cost of this power development and flood control on the Fraser river, and what is the cost going to be?

Topic:   FRASER RIVER
Subtopic:   FEDERAL PARTICIPATION IN DEVELOPMENT
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LIB

John Napier Turner (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources)

Liberal

Mr. John N. Turner (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources):

Mr. Speaker, the series of questions posed at the end of the remarks of the hon. member for Kootenay West is rather beyond a three minute reply. I am sure we are grateful to him for having read into the record in the late evening show the noon editorial from Vancouver. I would like to direct his attention to the answer the minister gave on July 9-which was the same day as the hon. member posed his question-* to his colleague, the hon. member for Comox-Alberni (Mr. Barnett). This answer is to be found at page 5245 of Hansard.

Topic:   FRASER RIVER
Subtopic:   FEDERAL PARTICIPATION IN DEVELOPMENT
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NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. Herridge:

I have read it. It did not tell all the story, though.

Topic:   FRASER RIVER
Subtopic:   FEDERAL PARTICIPATION IN DEVELOPMENT
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LIB

John Napier Turner (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources)

Liberal

Mr. Turner:

I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, with the greatest respect, that the answer the hon. member seeks this evening is found in fairly full measure there. First, upon receipt of the final report of the Fraser river board on flood control and hydroelectric power in the Fraser river basin, which was tabled in this house and which I am sure the hon. member, with his customary thoroughness, has already read from cover to cover, the Minister of Northern Affairs and National

Resources (Mr. Laing) was in touch with Hon. Ray Williston of British Columbia and, pursuant to those original communications, the two ministers met together to discuss the consequences, in preliminary fashion, of this report. I might say that the first concrete measure undertaken will be the $4J million strengthening of the Fraser river dike works, particularly along the lower reaches of the river. That proposal has been accepted by the federal government, and the work on the more dangerous spots along the river will be commenced in short order.

As for the response to Premier Bennett's proposal about the power development and flood control on the Fraser, the minister welcomed that announcement but at the moment we are awaiting an application from the province of British Columbia. We are also awaiting the facts and figures to be adduced by the premier as between flood control and power.

Topic:   FRASER RIVER
Subtopic:   FEDERAL PARTICIPATION IN DEVELOPMENT
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INDUSTRY-TIMMINS, ONT. FEDERAL PARTICIPATION IN MINING DEVELOPMENTS

NDP

Douglas Mason Fisher

New Democratic Party

Mr. D. M. Fisher (Port Arthur):

Mr. Speaker, on Friday last I asked a question as follows:

What part, if any, did he-

That is referring to the Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys:

-or his officials play in the negotiations and discussions between the Ontario department of mines and Texas Gulf in connection with the prospective developments around Timmins?

The reason I put the question when I did is because there is a current interest in the developments in Timmins. I thought there was a smart analysis by the financial editor of the Toronto Star the other night when he made the point that all the hullabaloo that is being raised in the Timmins area about locating the smelter and refinery there tends to gum up the fact that straight economics will determine the location of the smelter or the refinery, and that it would be just as well probably if the concentrates were shipped, as the company seems to plan, to North Carolina for production. It seems to me that while this argument of Mr. McArthur in the Toronto Star may be true, and while it may be true that the mining industry in particular is not one which welcomes government intervention, except in the form of subsidies on occasion, there is a role that the federal department of mines should be playing or could have played in this particular argument, and this argument is going to go on.

I put this argument in this form. The department of mines is the oldest research organization in Canada, and in recent years it has been moving into the field of doing more and more economic analysis. I should like to point out, Mr. Speaker, that last year it published a report entitled "Lead and zinc in Canada, 1961" by D. B. Fraser and J. W. Patterson, a pamphlet consisting of some 90 pages which went into the whole pattern of the market for these two minerals. Then there was published in 1963 a paper by R. B. Elver, T. H. Janes and J. H. Walsh entitled "Technical and economic factors in the choice of steel plant location", which advises where industry should locate its steel plants. This year the mineral information bulletin included one entitled "Canadian minerals in national and international perspective", by

B. Tooms. This study is designed to describe the growth and present status of the Canadian mineral industry and to measure its importance in the Canadian economy in the world mineral industry. I mention these particular publications to indicate that the department has an interest in the economics and location of various aspects or parts of the mining industry, and yet has done nothing substantial about what has been in recent years the booming part of the mines and metal markets, which is lead, copper and zinc, which I understand are the main metals discovered in the Timmins strike.

The other point I wanted to make about this is that we have had a most heterogeneous kind of discussion and the people of Timmins are getting up in arms because they want the smelter here and the refinery there. There is a pattern of information available and there are things the federal government can do in analysing and providing information which could clear up a great deal of this mystery.

I remember a year or two ago in the railway committee when we were asked to approve the building of a railway which would lead to the location of a smelter for zinc at Valleyfield, near Montreal. A lot of people do not realize that there is a different approach required to the smelting of lead, of copper and of zinc. A lot of people do not realize that in eastern Canada at the present time there are no real facilities for refining lead or zinc; although there is for copper, particularly at Noranda. I understand this will be a kind of mixed production in the Timmins area.

In this sort of trouble situation where we are getting pleas to the Department of Industry and the provincial department of mines

13, 1964 5431

Proceedings on Adjournment Motion from a whole area, seeing its economic future beginning to brighten and wanting to get the most out of it, I suggest that the department of mines, federally the oldest research organization in Canada in this field, with all the material available to it, should be right in there building railways, building up studies for the placement of refineries or smelters in certain places, and also considering the whole question of tariff negotiations with the United States, which is the major market for these products.

One of the many reasons why the refining of lead and zinc is done in the United States hinges on a very complicated tariff policy. In copper everything hinges on world arrangement. As I say, in this complicated field surely we should expect our oldest mines organization, our oldest research organization and the minister who heads that organization, to be playing some kind of role in the largest, most exciting mineral discovery we have had in Canada for some years. It is for this reason that I placed this question.

I should like to know what part the federal department has been playing in this regard, and I think we deserve an answer.

If the minister could get his department working in this field in supplying information and suggestions it could do a great deal to clear up what I think is going to be a lot of misunderstanding. If the concentrates in toto that come out of the Timmins development are shipped to the United States or to Europe, in the main, for their further processing rather than being smelted or refined in Canada, the old cry is going to go up that we are selling our resources cheap, that we are not producing enough in this country. It may be legitimate, but my point is that up to now we do not know what role the Department of Mines and Technical Surveys can play in providing information and indicating where the smelters or refineries should go and what should be done, and I think it is a bit of a shame.

Topic:   INDUSTRY-TIMMINS, ONT. FEDERAL PARTICIPATION IN MINING DEVELOPMENTS
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July 13, 1964