June 25, 1964

RA

David Réal Caouette

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Caouelle:

Mr. Chairman, I understand the eagerness of the hon. member for Winnipeg South Centre-

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PC

Gordon Minto Churchill (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Churchill:

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, do I understand that the hon. member has withdrawn his remarks accusing the Leader of the Opposition of lying? I would like your ruling on that. [Translation]

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RA

David Réal Caouette

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Caouelle:

Mr. Chairman, I never said "lie". I never uttered that word. I was speaking in French and the translation given is inadequate. The English translation would mean:

-misled the hon. member for Winnipeg South Centre.

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LIB

Herman Maxwell Batten (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

If it is the contention of the hon. member for Villeneuve that the translation was not exactly what he did say, then maybe the committee would accept the statement of the hon. member for Ville-neuve.

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Malcolm MacInnis

Mr. Maclnnis:

On that point of order, Mr. Chairman, in that the hon. member has made the statement that the translation was incorrect-

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An hon. Member:

How would you know; you don't speak French?

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Malcolm MacInnis

Mr. Maclnnis:

I might remind the hon. member that when I do have something to say I don't say it from behind the curtain. What I want to know from the hon. member is this: if in referring to the fact that the translation was wrong, is this a complaint against the translation staff?

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RA

Gilles Grégoire

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Gregoire:

Mr. Chairman, on the question of privilege, I think we have had enough such cases lately to recognize that a French word may have several meanings in English and vice-versa.

Now, I feel the interpretation given by the hon. member for Villeneuve (Mr. Caouette) deserves to be accepted as such. We had a striking example of the point I wish to make when the premier of the province of Quebec made a request at the federal-provincial conference and the French word "demande" was translated by "demand", which, although quite similar, does not mean the same thing.

In my opinion, the hon. member should accept the interpretation given by the hon. member for Villeneuve of the word he used in French.

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RA

David Réal Caouette

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Caouette:

I was not listening to the translation myself. It is my friends the Conservatives who listen to the translation. As for me, when they speak, I listen to them directly, because I can understand their language. I am not taking them to task. I merely wish to point out that I was not listening to the translation. I am sure the interpretation team is doing a good job, and I congratulate them. Far be it from me to accuse them of interpreting incorrectly what I said in my speech.

Mr. Chairman, this session has already been going on for months and all hon. members would no doubt welcome a summer recess. That is only natural.

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PC
RA

David Réal Caouette

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Caouette:

The hon. member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm says he wants to work. There you have the most useless member of this house who wants to keep on doing nothing all summer long.

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PC

Louis-Joseph Pigeon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pigeon:

Mr. Chairman, I am never absent from the house. Since the beginning of the session, the hon. member for Villeneuve has been coming here once a week, and I would ask the Canadian Mussolini to use his own judgment.

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LIB
RA

David Réal Caouette

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Caouette:

Mr. Chairman, I should like to say here that I strongly object to the remarks made by the irresponsible member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm.

I ask, Mr. Chairman, that you make the hon. member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm withdraw the words "Canadian Mussolini".

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PC
LIB

Auguste Choquette

Liberal

Mr. Choquetle:

On the point of order, Mr. Chairman, when the hon. member for Villeneuve said that the hon. member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm was the most useless member in the house, it was a slip of the tongue. He actually meant to say that the hon. member is the most harmful member here, and he is absolutely right.

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LIB

Herman Maxwell Batten (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

In the list of unparliamentary expressions I have here, I do not find the one the hon. member used. Nevertheless, I think it might be in the interest of better decorum in the house if the hon. member would rephrase his statement and use some other word.

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PC

Louis-Joseph Pigeon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pigeon:

I believe you are right, Mr. Chairman. I did make a mistake when I said the hon. member for Villeneuve is a Canadian Mussolini. I should have said a Canadian Hitler.

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RA

Gilles Grégoire

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Gregoire:

Mr. Chairman, I rise on a point of order. In my opinion, the hon. member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm is challenging your authority. I feel he should withdraw the words he has just spoken.

Mr. Chairman, I request a ruling on that point.

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LIB

Herman Maxwell Batten (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

May I say to the hon. member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm that I do not think the expression he

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used is a proper one and perhaps he would be willing to help the Chair by changing the phrase he used, and withdrawing it.

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June 25, 1964