May 20, 1964

HOUSE OF COMMONS DEBATES

OFFICIAL REPORT


queen's PRINTER AND CONTROLLER OF STATIONERY OTTAWA, 1964



Wednesday, May 20, 1964


PRESENCE IN GALLERY OP MEMBERS OF WEST GERMAN GOVERNMENT

PC

Eric Alfred Winkler (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Progressive Conservative Party)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Eric A. Winkler (Grey-Bruce):

Mr. Speaker, I rise with your permission, and I trust on behalf of the entire house, to welcome into the diplomatic gallery this afternoon four members of the West German government who are here on a visit. I would extend to them in their native tongue a "Herzliches Willkommen", which interpreted means bienvenue or welcome.

Topic:   PRESENCE IN GALLERY OP MEMBERS OF WEST GERMAN GOVERNMENT
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Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   PRESENCE IN GALLERY OP MEMBERS OF WEST GERMAN GOVERNMENT
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Hon. Paul Marlin@Secretary of Stale for External Affairs

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of those of us on this side of the house I should like to be allowed to associate myself with the hon. gentleman in extending a very sincere welcome to the distinguished parliamentarians from the Bundestag in Western Germany. I have recently been in West Germany, where I was the beneficiary of much kindness from the government of that country. I am sure that our expression of welcome to these distinguished parliamentarians will not be found wanting in the warmth and sincerity with which this parliament is pleased to welcome these distinguished representatives.

Topic:   PRESENCE IN GALLERY OP MEMBERS OF WEST GERMAN GOVERNMENT
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COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE

PROCEDURE

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Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

I have the honour to present, in English and in French, the sixth report of the special committee on procedure and organization. This report outlines a major reorganization of the staff and services of the House of Commons.

I have the honour to present in English and in French the seventh report of the special committee on procedure and organization. Later it is my intention to call upon the hon. member for Edmonton West to explain this report under the heading of motions.

Topic:   COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SEVENTH REPORT
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PC

Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Marcel Lambert (Edmonton West):

Mr. Speaker, seconded by the hon. member for Lapointe and with the unanimous consent of the house I should like to move concurrence in the seventh report of the special committee on procedure and organization.

It will be recalled that during the last session the committee on debates of which I had the honour to be a member presented a report which was not concurred in. Therein was contained the following paragraph:

That satisfactory electronic recording apparatus as referred to in the abovementioned report be installed at the earliest possible date to be used on a trial basis in selected committee rooms.

Hon. members will be aware that about two weeks ago a somewhat awkward situation arose with regard to the recording of the debates and proceedings of one of the house committees, that on privileges and elections, in the French language. Despite every effort it has been found very difficult to obtain additional reportorial staff, especially on a permanent basis. It was through the generosity of the other place and of one of the government agencies that trained reportorial staff able to record the proceedings in French were obtained.

In the past two years at least, primarily as a result of the introduction of simultaneous interpretation, considerably more French has been used in this chamber, with the result that an undue burden has been placed on the shoulders of our French Hansard staff who are thus not available for French committee hearings. It is in order to alleviate this difficulty, as well as to examine, rather with experience than in haste, the use of electronic recording equipment, that your committee would recommend to this house that electronic recording apparatus be introduced into selected committee proceedings in order to assist in overcoming the difficulty caused by the shortage of French reporters and in order that the value of this equipment may be assessed.

Your committee was unanimous in this recommendation, Mr. Speaker, and I would ask members of the house to concur in this report.

Procedure Committee [Translation]

Topic:   COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SEVENTH REPORT
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RA

Gilles Grégoire

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Gilles Gregoire (Lapointe):

Mr. Speaker,

I am pleased to second the hon. member for Edmonton West (Mr. Lambert) for concurrence in the seventh report of the special committee on procedure and organization.

It is obvious that we were faced with an emergency due to the shortage of bilingual or French speaking stenographers and reporters in the various committees of the house.

As mentioned by the hon. member for Edmonton West, these last few years, mostly in the last two years, the French language has asserted itself more and more in the house and this has contributed to emphasize the bilingual character of our country. However, bilingual or French speaking reporters could not be found.

What is strange in the situation that is developing today is that we are obliged to call on machines to replace people, that is electronic machines to replace the reporters who could have been used.

While I second this motion, Mr. Speaker, I wish to point out that it does not necessarily mean that reporters will be replaced but that their work will be made easier and more complete. I suggest at the same time that the responsible authorities make the necessary efforts to find bilingual or French reporters. I am convinced that their smallest efforts will meet with success and that it will be possible and even easy to find very good French or bilingual stenographers and reporters in our country.

Topic:   COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SEVENTH REPORT
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PC

Louis-Joseph Pigeon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pigeon:

If we offer a good salary, we will find some.

Topic:   COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SEVENTH REPORT
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LIB

Allan Joseph MacEachen (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Hon. A. J. MacEachen (Minisier of Labour):

Mr. Speaker, I want to say a word on this motion as a member of the special committee on procedure and organization. We are pleased on this side of the house to consent to the waiving of the usual notice and make concurrence in this report possible today. We do that because of the emergency situation that has prevailed in the standing committees with respect to the problem of French reporting. I think it ought to be noted that considerable flexibility is being observed by the special committee on procedure and organization, in that the hon. member who has moved concurrence in this report is recommending to the house the installation of recording apparatus on a trial basis, which will ultimately involve an expenditure of public funds. It ought to be indicated at this point that a special prerogative is involved here on the

part of the government, which will be discharged in the proper way at a later date.

Topic:   COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SEVENTH REPORT
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Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

It has been moved by the hon. member for Edmonton West, seconded by the hon. member for Lapointe, that by unanimous consent this house do now concur in the seventh report of the special committee on procedure and organization. Is it the pleasure of the house to adopt the said motion?

Topic:   COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SEVENTH REPORT
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NDP

Harold Edward Winch

New Democratic Party

Mr. Harold E. Winch (Vancouver East):

Mr. Speaker, may I just say a word on this, or is that not permitted?

Topic:   COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SEVENTH REPORT
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Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

The hon. member for Vancouver East.

Topic:   COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SEVENTH REPORT
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NDP

Harold Edward Winch

New Democratic Party

Mr. Winch:

I apologize if I did not catch your eye but I did want to make a very brief statement on this matter. In no way whatsoever do I oppose the suggestion which has been made or the principle involved, but I do want to make clear, because no one else has, the semi-hypocritical attitude involved. Mention was made of a committee meeting some two weeks ago which had to be postponed because a French reporter was not there. Mr. Speaker, an English reporter was there, and we in the House of Commons have a marvellous translation branch. Anything taken down at that committee would have been available in both languages within a matter of hours.

You may ask why I raise this point. It is because we now have a recommendation to instal electronic equipment. I agree with that recommendation, but I would draw to your attention that electronic equipment takes down the exact words spoken. There is no simultaneous translation by electronic machine. There is no such animal as a bilingual electronic machine taking something down in one language and immediately translating it into another.

Topic:   COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SEVENTH REPORT
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An hon. Member:

Oh, yes, there is.

Topic:   COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   PROCEDURE
Sub-subtopic:   CONCURRENCE IN SEVENTH REPORT
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May 20, 1964