May 15, 1964

?

Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
?

Malcolm MacInnis

Mr. Donald Maclnnis (Cape Breton South):

The minister told us there was no opportunity to raise this matter last night, and he referred to the half hour between 10 p.m. and 10.30 p.m. taken up by special questions. I call his attention to the fact that the allotted 30 minutes was not completely taken up last night, and that the house rose at 10.25 p.m. Had the minister been present he would have had an opportunity in those remaining five minutes to raise this question of privilege. As to the hon. gentleman's statement that time was not available, he would not have known about it because he was not present after ten o'clock.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
?

Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

I think at this stage I might clear up the point which has just been raised by saying that the period allotted between 10 p. m. and 10.30 p.m. is for the purpose of dealing with three questions raised by three hon. members. If those hon. members do not utilize the full time of 30 minutes, the remaining time lapses. The 30 minute period does not allow for the raising of other points.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
PC

Thomas Miller Bell

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Bell:

Is Your Honour ruling that we cannot bring up a question of privilege between 10 p.m. and 10.30 p.m.?

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
?

Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

That particular question is not before the house. We have plenty to deal with at the present moment.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
PC

Gordon Harvey Aiken

Progressive Conservative

Mr. G. H. Aiken (Parry Sound-Muskoka):

I should like to make two comments on the point of order. First, with respect to the remarks of the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre, may I say I feel he has proved the very point I was trying to make. In the case to which he has referred there was a caveat entered. At the very moment when the incident occurred the possible question of privilege was drawn to the attention of the house. It was afterward followed up, as I think the rule really intends. Furthermore, what the minister raised last night was point of order. If he had felt there was a question of privilege he could have raised a question of privilege. Instead, he apparently felt at that time it was only a matter of procedure.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
LIB

Joseph-Alphonse-Anaclet Habel

Liberal

Mr. J. A. Habel (Cochrane):

Mr. Speaker, about this question of privilege, I should like to draw your attention to page 3276 of Hansard where you will find that just after the hon. member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm said this:

Question of Privilege I am not at all surprised at what happened at the government caucus, because I know very well the habits of the Minister of Transport since he has been sitting here.

I got up from my seat in order to raise a question of privilege. The Deputy Speaker did not even give me time to put my question of privilege and called me to order. It was my intention, therefore, to rise immediately on a question of privilege yesterday afternoon.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
PC

Gordon Minto Churchill (Official Opposition House Leader; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Gordon Churchill (Winnipeg South Centre):

The subject which the Minister of Justice is attempting to raise, Mr. Speaker, was a matter of debate yesterday. At that time charges were made and denials were made by the Minister of Justice. If a question of privilege is allowed on this issue we will be faced in the future with subsequent questions of privilege following debates in this house, where we are quite accustomed to charges being made and denials being offered. The Minister of Justice had every opportunity, and took it, yesterday in the debate to speak against the statements made by the hon. member who had the floor at that time. As I have said, he took that opportunity, and surely he cannot now raise a question of privilege on something on which he has been reflecting overnight.

If this is permitted, Mr. Speaker, there will be no end to questions of privilege based on previous debates. It is during the debate that answers are given to statements made. If the Minister of Justice had wished a withdrawal at that time, he could have asked for it. As I read Hansard the hon. member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm made a certain statement and the Minister of Justice denied that statement. This happens all the time in debates in this house, and the matter rests at that point.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
PC

Paul Raymond Martineau

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Mariineau:

Mr. Speaker, there is just one other point I should like to raise further to the remarks made by the hon. member for Winnipeg South Centre. It is that the Deputy Speaker who was presiding over the deliberations last night has already ruled on this question. I have before me the French report, which reads as follows:

I cannot see the good it will do to keep up this debate any longer.

Now, "sous cet aspect" was referring precisely to whether there had been a breach of

[Mr. Habel.l

the rules by the hon. member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm. The Deputy Speaker went on to say that each hon. member had to accept the word of another, and that was the end of it. So that the matter, having already been ruled upon, becomes chose jugee, or res judicata, and I think that is another reason why the minister's question of privilege is not receivable at this time.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
NDP

Douglas Mason Fisher

New Democratic Party

Mr. Fisher:

Carried.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
?

Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. If I may say so, this question is not without a certain amount of difficulty, for the Chair at least. I have to decide whether this is the proper time to raise a question of privilege and I should like to make reference to two authorities; first of all to our standing orders of the house, wherein we find that standing order 17 says:

Whenever any matter of privilege arises, it shall be taken into consideration immediately.

Then I refer to Beauchesne's fourth edition, citation 104, paragraph 5, which is probably well known by this time. It says:

As a motion taken at the time for matters of privilege is thereby given precedence over the prearranged program of public business, the Speaker requires to be satisfied, both that there is a prima facie case that a breach of privilege has been committed, and also that the matter is being raised at the earliest opportunity. If he is not so satisfied he may allow the member to make a statement with a view to ascertaining whether or not a prima facie case can be made out.

It was obvious this morning that, not having been in the chair at the time the vote was taken, I had to listen to at least a short explanation from the Minister of Justice. On the other hand, I understand the matter was debated fully yesterday, a vote was taken by the house and the matter was disposed of. The minister, I am informed this morning, was in the house last night and did have the opportunity to raise a question of privilege immediately, but did not do so.

I regret very much being obliged to come to the conclusion that the motion should not be made or received at this time. In view of standing order 17 and the fact that the matter was discussed fully yesterday and a vote was taken, I must say that in my opinion there is no question of privilege.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
RA

Gilles Grégoire

Ralliement Créditiste

Mr. Gilles Gregoire (Lapointe):

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, and not on the question of privilege raised by the Minister of Justice. On several occasions since the session started, there have been questions of privilege put by hon. members on the government side, as well as from the Conservative and New Democratic parties. They had

the opportunity of voicing their opinions on those questions of privilege. The question I am raising today is to the effect that we, in this corner of the house, have tried to air our views, and that it seemed as if a barrier had been erected at a certain spot up to which opinions were considered, while this consideration did not reach down to our benches.

I wanted to submit this question because it has happened repeatedly since the session started.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
LIB

Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien

Liberal

Mr. Jean Chretien (St. Maurice-Lafleche):

Mr. Speaker, on a question of privilege.

Yesterday afternoon, between five and six o'clock, the hon. member for Joliette-L'As-somption-Montcalm (Mr. Pigeon) raised a question during the discussion, implying that the Liberal members had an opportunity to look at the location maps during their caucus.

I submit to Your Honour-

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
?

Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
LIB

Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien

Liberal

Mr. Chretien:

Mr. Speaker, I was absent when the hon. member made his statements. [Text]

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
?

Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

Order. This is the same point. In my opinion the hon. member has no question of privilege.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
LIB

Joseph Jacques Jean Chrétien

Liberal

Mr. Chretien:

Mr. Speaker, I was absent when the hon. member made his statements- [Text]

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink
?

Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

Order, please. The Chair has ruled against the hon. member.

Topic:   MR. FAVREAU REMARKS IN DEBATE BY MEMBER FOR JOLIETTE-L'ASSOMPTION-MONTCALM
Permalink

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

MEASURES TO BE CONSIDERED BEFORE SUMMER RECESS

May 15, 1964