May 14, 1964

?

Some hon. Members:

Name them.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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PC

Louis-Joseph Pigeon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pigeon:

I will not name them, Mr. Speaker.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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PC

Louis-Joseph Pigeon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pigeon:

I am not at all surprised at what happened at the government caucus, because I know very well the habits of the Minister of Transport since he has been sitting here.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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LIB

Joseph-Alphonse-Anaclet Habel

Liberal

Mr. Habel:

Mr. Speaker-

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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LIB
LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

I cannot see the good it will do to keep up this debate any longer. I think that hon. members will accept as true the words of the hon. member, whether he is a minister or not, whether he sits on one side of the house or the other. I am sure that the hon. member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm will follow the judgment of the house.

Pursuant to provisional standing order 47, subsection 2, I must advise hon. members that the time allotted for consideration of this motion has expired, except for two five-minute periods, one for a minister speaking on behalf of the government, and one allocated to the mover of the motion who will close the debate.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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LIB

George James McIlraith (Minister of National Revenue; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Hon. G. J. Mcllrailh (Acting Minister of National Revenue):

This debate on the

motion for the production of these papers has now gone on for two hours and thirty-three minutes and under the rules I am allocated a very limited amount of time to deal with the subject. Since a minister has spoken earlier in the debate, I will confine my remarks to some of the points raised today.

In so far as the remarks made by the hon. member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm (Mr. Pigeon) are concerned, I am sure all hon. members who heard them or who will read them tomorrow when they appear in Hansard, will dismiss them at once with the contempt they deserve. He did not deal with the subject matter before the house, but purported to put out, on his responsibility, the procedures in caucus-

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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PC

Eldon Mattison Woolliams

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Woolliams:

I rise on a point of order. Surely, the distinguished minister is not implying that the word of the Minister of Justice (Mr. Favreau) must be accepted and the word of the hon. member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm cannot be accepted. Is he implying that one rule should be applied because one member graces the front benches and another rule should be applied because an hon. member does not grace the front benches?

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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LIB

George James McIlraith (Minister of National Revenue; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllrailh:

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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PC

Eldon Mattison Woolliams

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Woolliams:

I wonder if the minister would permit a question?

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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LIB

George James McIlraith (Minister of National Revenue; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllraith:

I have only five minutes, and I should like to reply.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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Eldon Mattison Woolliams

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Woolliams:

Are you going to be like the rest of the members on your side, and like the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre (Mr. Knowles) and deny that there are maps in existence?

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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LIB

George James McIlraith (Minister of National Revenue; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllraith:

I will say that I have been told. I have not seen them, and there obviously can be no maps until the bill that is before the house is passed. I should like to use the time allotted to me, since I have only five minutes.

The hon. member took the time of this house to reflect upon an officer of parliament in a way that simply will not be accepted by those people who know that officer, the representation commissioner.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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PC

Eldon Mattison Woolliams

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Woolliams:

I rise on a point of

privilege.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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LIB

George James McIlraith (Minister of National Revenue; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllraith:

You raise your point of privilege at the conclusion of my remarks.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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LIB

Lucien Lamoureux (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

The hon. member for Bow River.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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PC

Eldon Mattison Woolliams

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Woolliams:

I was very careful on this and on another occasion to say that I have absolute confidence in the representation commissioner; that I was not reflecting on his personal integrity. The hon. member is putting words in my mouth or putting the wrong interpretation upon my words. I did not impute motives to the former secretary of state who was demoted to Minister of Transport (Mr. Pickersgill), and I stand by that remark.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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LIB

George James McIlraith (Minister of National Revenue; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. Mcllraith:

It is contrary to the rules to impute motives to any hon. member of the house, but I will not raise that point of order now.

All I wanted to say was that there are obviously no maps, within the meaning attributed to that term by the hon. member for

Electoral Boundaries Maps Bow River, in existence, and I hope that these sketches will not be produced. It is obvious that there cannot be maps prepared until this independent commission we hope to have set up, is set up.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   MAPS SHOWING ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES
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May 14, 1964