August 1, 1963

COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE

LIBRARY OF PARLIAMENT

?

Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

May I be permitted to inform the house that the joint committee on the library met yesterday and 1 now have the honour to table its first report in both English and French.

Topic:   COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   LIBRARY OF PARLIAMENT
Sub-subtopic:   FIRST REPORT OF JOINT COMMITTEE
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MISCELLANEOUS PRIVATE BILLS

EIGHTH REPORT


Eighth report of standing committee on miscellaneous private bills-Mr. Wahn. (Translation):


PRIVILEGE

MR. PIGEON REFERENCE TO REMARK IN DEBATE BY SECRETARY OF STATE

PC

Louis-Joseph Pigeon

Progressive Conservative

Mr. L. J. Pigeon (Jolielte-L'Assompiion-Monicalm):

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege. I am referring to a question which was asked by the hon. member for Rosthern (Mr. Nasserden) and to the reply given by the Secretary of State (Mr. Pick-ersgill), which went as follows:

I am afraid I cannot add anything to the answer which was given to his alert colleague, the hon. member for Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm, who anticipated this question on June 28 and represented the hon. gentleman's constituents at that time.

Mr. Speaker, I should like to point out that even though I live in the riding of Joliette-L'Assomption-Montcalm, which is not the minister's case, it is my privilege to ask questions which do not necessarily concern the constituency I represent in Ottawa. As a member of the parliament of Canada, it is my right to ask questions concerning other parts of the country.

Furthermore, I have no orders to take from the hon. Fuehrer from Bonavista-Twillingate.

Topic:   PRIVILEGE
Subtopic:   MR. PIGEON REFERENCE TO REMARK IN DEBATE BY SECRETARY OF STATE
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WITHDRAWAL OF QUESTIONS ON ORDER PAPER

SC

Gilles Grégoire

Social Credit

Mr. Gilles Gregoire (Lapointe):

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege which might not be one, but I should like to raise the matter just the same with the consent of the house.

During the question period yesterday afternoon, the Secretary of State (Mr. Pickersgill) called us together to inform us of the difficulties caused by a number of questions on bilingualism put on the order paper by the hon. members for Beauce, Quebec East, Compton-Frontenac, Dorchester and Roberval (Messrs. Perron, Beaule, Latulippe, Boutin and Gauthier).

There are several of those difficulties that we cannot admit, namely:

(a) the definition of a bilingual person,

(b) the criteria to be used to assess the bilingualism of such a person,

(c) the length of such an inquiry,

(d) ascertaining whether a business is French Canadian or not.

In addition, we feel that knowledge of the facts, of statistics and of the degree of participation of French Canadians in the affairs of the country is absolutely essential to the Laurendeau-Dunton royal commission if it is to conduct a worthwhile inquiry.

On the other hand, we understand and appreciate that the Secretary of State (Mr. Pickersgill) would like to dispose of all the questions on the order paper before the summer recess.

(Text):

Therefore, in view of the fact that the government has shown determination to settle the problems of bilingualism and biculturalism in our country, we will agree to the request of the Secretary of State to withdraw these questions from the order paper, under the condition that the government will ask the civil service commission to make an inquiry on this subject and transmit the results of this inquiry to the Dunton-Laurendeau commission and to ourselves.

Topic:   WITHDRAWAL OF QUESTIONS ON ORDER PAPER
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Secretary of State of Canada; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Secretary of State):

If I might be permitted to say a word, I should like to express appreciation to the hon. member and to other hon. members in whose names the questions are standing, and to give to them the assurance that I have communicated with the commission about this matter. The civil service commission is most anxious to provide all possible information of the character that was asked for in these questions to the royal commission. The government will do everything possible to facilitate the procedure along the lines the hon. gentleman

2880 HOUSE OF

Establishment of Shipping Trusteeship has suggested. Speaking tor the government, I am most appreciative of the attitude he has taken.

Topic:   WITHDRAWAL OF QUESTIONS ON ORDER PAPER
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Maurice Bourget (Speaker of the Senate)

Mr. Speaker:

Will the Secretary of State indicate now if possible, or later perhaps, the numbers of the questions to which reference has been made?

Topic:   WITHDRAWAL OF QUESTIONS ON ORDER PAPER
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Secretary of State of Canada; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I wonder if I might save the time of the house by indicating that tomorrow?

Topic:   WITHDRAWAL OF QUESTIONS ON ORDER PAPER
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?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

Topic:   WITHDRAWAL OF QUESTIONS ON ORDER PAPER
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LABOUR RELATIONS

GREAT LAKES

LIB

Allan Joseph MacEachen (Minister of Labour)

Liberal

Hon. A. J. MacEachen (Minister of Labour):

Mr. Speaker, I indicated yesterday that I should like to make a further statement about the report of Mr. Justice Norris on the disruption of shipping. Hon. members will have had the opportunity of reading the report and becoming familiar with its contents since its release just over two weeks ago on July 18. Hon. members will, I think, all agree with me that the commissioner delivered a comprehensive report following one oi tne most intensive inquiries ever made in Canada in a labour relations situation. The report gives an account of violence, corruption, lawlessness, mismanagement, misapplication of union funds and arbitrary control over the livelihood of seamen on the waters of the great lakes and the St. Lawrence seaway.

Both the inquiry itself and the report have clearly stirred public opinion, and from questions asked by hon. members it would appear that they have also been deeply shocked by the sordid and cynical situation which appears to exist in areas of the shipping industry on the joint waters uniting Canada and the United States. A strong desire has been expressed that resolute action be taken to control the situation, to cure it and to prevent it from corrupting other parts of the legitimate union movement.

An interdepartmental committee composed of deputy ministers and other senior officials of the departments most directly concerned was named, as announced earlier, on July 17. This committee has reviewed, under some pressure, the recommendations contained in the report and has made its observations on each of them. Based on these observations, on the endorsation of the major recommendation on the part of four of the five maritime unions directly involved, one of which endorsed the major recommendation only yesterday, and on the widespread public support for effective action to be taken to deal with the

situation revealed by the inquiry, the government has reached a decision that a trusteeship is advisable.

Consultations have been carried on with the Canadian Labour Congress about the course of action which might be followed. Both the government and the Canadian Labour Congress hold firmly to the view that a government sponsored trusteeship should not be introduced as a normal means of dealing with problems arising within or between unions, and that it is justified in this instance only due to the extraordinary circumstances prevailing with respect to Canadian shipping on the great lakes and the St. Lawrence seaway.

In view of the fact that all of its affiliates concerned have accepted the recommendation for a trusteeship, and on the understanding that a trusteeship would be of a temporary duration and that the legislation providing for it would contain other safeguards, including progressive removal of the trusteeship, the Canadian Labour Congress has now assured the government of its co-operation.

A start has been made on the preparation of the necessary legislation. As will be appreciated, this requires much care due to the conctituticncil aspect involved necessity for the legislation to be effective.

We had hoped it would have been possible to bring forward legislation before the recess. The only type of legislation that could have been prepared for immediate parliamentary action, due to the limited time available since the report was issued, would have been general enabling legislation empowering the government to take the necessary action under regulations approved by governor in council.

After careful reflection it has been decided not to propose this course. Instead a decision has been taken to press ahead with the preparation of detailed legislation that is within the power of parliament to enact, and which will be introduced for the immediate attention of the house on our return at the end of September.

The interval will enable us to proceed with our plans, including completion of the necessary work on the legislation. It is our intention to have further discussions with the United States authorities with a view to ensuring the maximum effectiveness of a trusteesship in removing the continuing harassment of Canadian ships on the great lakes. I would like to refer, in this connection, to that portion of the official release issued in May following the meeting of President Kennedy and the Prime Minister of Canada at Hyannis Port on May 11:

"On the great waters that separate and unite the two countries-the St. Lawrence river and the great lakes-it is essential that those who own

and sail the ships should be free to go about their lawful business without impediment or harassment."

As hon. members know, this harassment has continued. There have been several further acts of violence, illegal picketing, and one Canadian vessel has been refused the right of all shipping and loading facilities at the port of Chicago for over 100 days, despite the fact that court injunctions against such secondary picketing have been obtained.

It is to be sincerely hoped that the decision to establish a trusteeship will lead to a full resolution of the serious problems that have arisen in both Canada and the United States over the past three shipping seasons.

Trusteeship, which is a device used by the unions themselves to control and rehabilitate delinquent local unions, is a distasteful remedy to deal with a repugnant situation. Fortunately nearly everyone has realized that action along these lines is a necessity and has endorsed the commissioner's recommendation in this respect. While the government has every expectation of co-operation on the part of all responsible Canadian and United States union members and leaders and of all companies directly concerned, I do want to make it clear that should matters deteriorate on the great lakes or elsewhere, and it becomes necessary, parliament will be called back into session earlier than has been announced to deal with this matter.

In any event, sustained efforts will be maintained during our recess to see that cooperation with the United States authorities is developed to the fullest possible extent so that it will serve to supplement action taken by parliament. The interval may in fact prove useful not only to develop these supplementary lines of action but also to permit substitute action being taken should this prove to be equally effective in accomplishing the objectives of the legislation now being prepared.

I should add, Mr. Speaker, before concluding that the two special counsel, Mr. Robinette of Toronto and Mr. Martineau of Montreal, have already commenced their examination of the report of the inquiry commission and the accompanying exhibits and documents, and will be in a position to advise the government in due course with respect to prosecutions.

Topic:   LABOUR RELATIONS
Subtopic:   GREAT LAKES
Sub-subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO ESTABLISH TRUSTEESHIP
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PC

Michael Starr

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Michael Siarr (Ontario):

Mr. Speaker, we on this side of the house welcome the announcement that has been made by the Minister of Labour that the government has decided to put into effect by legislation the most important of the recommendations made

Establishment of Shipping Trusteeship by Mr. Justice Norris; that is, the recommendation to set up a trusteeship. I wish to say a few more words about that later.

First may I say that as minister of labour at the time this commission was set up I found it necessary, because of conditions existing on the great lakes, to take this action. We were very fortunate indeed to obtain the services of Mr. Justice Norris of British Columbia as the commissioner. Mr. Justice Norris did a wonderful piece of work in getting all the evidence after well over 100 meetings during the course of his investigation and in writing, as the Minister of Labour has stated, a very comprehensive report dealing, I might say, with a very serious situation which faced operations on the great lakes.

The interdepartmental committee which has been working since July 17 has certainly done a very effective job in its recommendations to the government, and it is well that the government has heeded the advice of Mr. Justice Norris and the interdepartmental committee in deciding to set up a trusteeship. I think this is advisable. I want to congratulate the Canadian Labour Congress and the other unions affiliated with them for their attitude in agreeing to operate under government trusteeship. Mind you, Mr. Speaker, as the Minister of Labour has said, it is distasteful to organized labour and very repugnant to them to be placed under trusteeship. Nevertheless I think the situation warrants this being done, but it should be on a very temporary basis. In other words the members of the trusteeship should work toward achieving a peaceful solution to the problem on the great lakes in as short a space of time as possible. Certainly it should not be a precedent for any case in the future unless the situation warrants it, as it did on the great lakes. I think it is very important that its duration be not too long, yet it should be sufficient to carry out the recommendations which have been made by Mr. Justice Norris.

I think another important aspect is the harassment of Canadian ships in United States ports. Since the government is willing to take decisive action through legislation, the United States government should be asked to take some more definite action in co-operation with the Canadian government in order to see that Canadian ships are able to put into United States ports and be loaded and unloaded without undue delay, which has not been the case with Canadian ships up to now, and as has not been the case with the Canadian ship now tied up in the port of Chicago.

The Minister of Labour mentioned that if the situation demands, or if there is any disruption on the great lakes between now and

2882 HOUSE OF

Establishment of Shipping Trusteeship the time the legislation is introduced, parliament may be recalled. I hope the government, and particularly the Minister of Labour and his department, will keep a very sharp lookout for such an eventuality and that they will do everything in their power to bring about a settlement; and I hope there will be no disruption of shipping on the great lakes between now and the time the legislation is enacted.

Topic:   LABOUR RELATIONS
Subtopic:   GREAT LAKES
Sub-subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO ESTABLISH TRUSTEESHIP
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SC

Horace Andrew (Bud) Olson

Social Credit

Mr. H. A. Olson (Medicine Hat):

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of this party I want to say, as the Minister of Labour pointed out, that we also recognize that public opinion has clearly been stirred. We are happy to see the government is going to take what the minister termed resolute action, and we hope this action will be of a nature which will prevent a situation of this kind ever again developing within a labour union in Canada. We commend the four of five unions which have agreed to go into trusteeship in recognition of this problem. We hope the Minister of Justice will not overlook the responsibility that we feel his department has in perusing and following up the subject matter of the report regarding possible prosecutions which should be muds' and. f'u'^prmnrp wp hops the Department of Justice will not overlook the alleged collusion between some shipping companies and the labour unions.

We too agree that this kind of action should not be considered as a precedent for curing labour problems, although we think it is necessary in this most extreme case. I listened carefully, but I do not think the Minister of Labour mentioned any effective date for the establishment of this trusteeship. However, if I understood his remarks correctly he would ask the government to call parliament back should the situation deteriorate to the point where action by parliament is necessary. All I want to say in this respect is that we in this group would be willing to co-operate with the government in this regard.

We also recognize the international problems which are involved, and we appreciate the difficulties here because of the tie between the union in Canada and the union in the United States. We hope that the government, as the hon. member for Ontario suggested, will take further steps to persuade the United States government to take action which will prevent this harassment of Canadian ships in United States ports.

Topic:   LABOUR RELATIONS
Subtopic:   GREAT LAKES
Sub-subtopic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF DECISION TO ESTABLISH TRUSTEESHIP
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August 1, 1963