December 11, 1962

LIB

George James McIlraith

Liberal

Mr. Mcllraiih:

The governing body of the Presbyterian church in Canada is, of course, the general assembly of the church, and incidentally the name given to the church is to be found curiously enough in the 1939 act

respecting the United Church of Canada. But be that as it may, the trustee board is the incorporated body and in a moment I can give the hon. member the precise reference. In any event, it is appointed by the general assembly and is made a corporate body under the act. The act is chapter 64 of the 1939 statutes.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   THE TRUSTEE BOARD OF THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN CANADA
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L L

William Moore Benidickson

Liberal Labour

Mr. Benidickson:

Mr. Chairman, I did observe that the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration was otherwise occupied when I raised a question. I am sure he will answer me by letter. I simply want to reaffirm that my question relates to the pension duality, shall I say, of ordained people who might be entitled to certain privileges under a bill of this kind if they have perhaps devoted a certain part of their lives to teaching Indians or Eskimos. I am concerned about that. I would like to know the responsibility of the state and the responsibility of the church; not only this church, but any other church.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   THE TRUSTEE BOARD OF THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN CANADA
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PC

Richard Albert Bell (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Bell (Carleton):

Mr. Chairman, I apologize to my hon. friend from Kenora-Rainy River for not observing that he was asking me a question. I was endeavouring to concentrate on another matter. I will look at Hansard and if there is an appropriate reply I will certainly send it to him at the first opportunity.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   THE TRUSTEE BOARD OF THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN CANADA
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NDP

Reid Scott

New Democratic Party

Mr. Scott:

Mr. Chairman, I wonder if the sponsor of the bill could tell us a little bit about this investment fund, its size, scope and the nature of its investments. I think the committee would be very interested in hearing about the fund. If the hon. member has any information I would be very glad to receive it from him.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   THE TRUSTEE BOARD OF THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN CANADA
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?

Mr. Mc@

Mr. Chairman, I regret that I have not that information. We had a member of the trustee board and a member of the pension committee before the miscellaneous private bills committee which dealt with this bill at the standing committee stage. I am sorry that question was not asked there and I regret that I do not have this information.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   THE TRUSTEE BOARD OF THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN CANADA
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Clause agreed to. Clause 2 agreed to. Preamble agreed to. Title agreed to. Bill reported, read the third time and passed.


THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA

PC

J. Nicholas (Nick) Mandziuk

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nicholas Mandziuk (Marquette):

Mr. Speaker, may I ask the unanimous consent of the house to giving precedence to item

Private Bills

No. 11, a bill standing in my name? I would ask that it be taken before we proceed with item No. 2. It is a relatively short bill and will not take up too much time of the committee.

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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LIB

Alan Aylesworth Macnaughton

Liberal

Mr. Alan Macnaughlon (Mount Royal):

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, could I associate myself with the hon. member who has just spoken and asked that item No. 12, which is a very short bill to the same effect, also be given precedence ahead of the other divorce bills.

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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PC

Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

The hon. member said "other divorce bills". I do not believe his bill is a divorce bill. I think he means "before the divorce bills".

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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LIB

Alan Aylesworth Macnaughton

Liberal

Mr. Macnaughlon:

Yes, Mr. Speaker. (Translation):

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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SC

David Ouellet

Social Credit

Mr. David Ouellei (Drummond-Arthabaska):

Mr. Speaker, did I understand well? I am asking this merely because I did not hear very well. Is Bill S-12 the one to be put before the house?

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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PC

Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

No. The house would be asked to consider Bills S-ll and S-14.

As requested by the hon. member for Marquette (Mr. Mandziuk), we shall first consider Bill S-ll.

(Text):

The hon. member for Marquette (Mr. Mandziuk) asks the unanimous consent of the house that Bill No. S-ll be considered in committee of the whole prior to items 2 to 10. Has the hon. member unanimous consent? Agreed?

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

The house in committee on Bill No. S-ll, respecting the Sovereign Life Assurance Company of Canada-Mr. Mandziuk-Mr. Paul in the chair.

On clause 1-Name in French.

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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L L

William Moore Benidickson

Liberal Labour

Mr. Benidickson:

Mr. Chairman, I see that the hon. member for Marquette is the sponsor of this bill. Has this bill any relationship to the taking over of this company by the small loans finance company known I believe as I.A.C.?

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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PC

J. Nicholas (Nick) Mandziuk

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Mandziuk:

Mr. Chairman, in reply to the hon. member I think a short statement would clarify the matter, avoid too many questions and save the time of the committee. The only intention of this bill is to give the Sovereign Life Assurance Company of Canada a French name in accordance with the letters of incorporation. The French name would be La Souveraine, compagnie d'assurance-vie du Canada. It does not change the obligations

Private Bills

of the company at all. The committee will notice these words under item 11 on the order paper:

Text of amendment printed in Votes and Proceedings of December 6 at pages 365-6.

There was an amendment after the bill passed the other place. When it was before the banking and commerce committee an amendment was suggested and passed, namely that the company could use either the English name or the French version of the name, and it could be sued in either name. That is the whole essence of this bill.

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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L L

William Moore Benidickson

Liberal Labour

Mr. Benidickson:

Mr. Chairman, I thank the hon. member for his reply. Perhaps I am wrong about this, but is this the Winnipeg company that was recently bought out by one of the small loans finance companies, as I call them?

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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PC

J. Nicholas (Nick) Mandziuk

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Mandziulr:

I am not aware of this, Mr. Chairman. I know that the Sovereign Life Assurance Company's head office is in Winnipeg. I also have information that about one third of its business is done in the province of Quebec. It is a strong company financially. But I am not aware of any such transaction at all.

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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LIB

George James McIlraith

Liberal

Mr. Mcllrailh:

Mr. Chairman, in supporting this bill I am given an opportunity to raise a point I would like to put forward. The bill is quite clear in that it is simply providing that the company, which was incorporated with an English name, may use a French translation or a French version of its name. It is one of several bills to this effect that we have had with increasing frequency these last few years. There were earlier ones, but they are now becoming more and more frequent. What I would like to point out ^ is a deficiency in the Companies Act, the legislation which deals with companies incorpo-porated by letters patent. There is no provision in the Companies Act to permit companies incorporated under that act to use a translation of their names. If they take a name in French they cannot use the English translation of it; if they take a name in English they cannot use the French translation of it.

It seems to me that this presents a difficulty, and I say this on the basis of some experience of cases of companies doing business in all parts of Canada. They find that in the part of Canada which is larger geographically a name in English is sufficient, but it is inappropriate and unsatisfactory for use in those parts of the country where French is the language principally spoken. It is a practical problem of considerable concern to many of the companies which are

incorporated by letters patent. I hope this point will receive attention by the government, and that the simple amending legislation necessary may be brought forward in order that these companies shall have the same right as is granted to those companies which are incorporated by special act.

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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L L

William Moore Benidickson

Liberal Labour

Mr. Benidickson:

I would simply address one question to the sponsor of this bill, the hon. member for Marquette. If I was right in my surmise that this company will be a subsidiary of one of the large small loans companies-I think it is I.A.C.-which lend at high rates of interest, could he inform the committee whether he knows of any precedent, any case of another company taking over a life insurance company and to what extent this would involve either those who are insured by such a company or the normal rights of parliament with respect to lending under the Small Businesses Loans Act?

Topic:   THE SOVEREIGN LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANY OF CANADA
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December 11, 1962