April 18, 1962

PC

Paul Raymond Martineau (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

When shall the said bill be read a second time?

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?

Some hon. Members:

Now.

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PC

Paul Raymond Martineau (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

By leave, now.

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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinton) moved

the second reading of the bill.

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NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):

just wish to ask the Minister of Finance one question. Is this bill drawn in the usual and accepted form?

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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinton):

Yes, sir.

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LIB
PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinton):

This is not interim supply.

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PC

John Cameron Pallett (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Palleil:

Keep that question until later.

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LIB

Motion agreed to, bill read the second time, considered in committee, reported, read the third time and passed.



The house in committee of supply, Mr. Martineau in the chair.



Interim Supply


INTERIM SUPPLY

PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinlon) moved:

Resolved, that a sum not exceeding $1,704,710,347.93, being the aggregate of-

(a) five twelfths of the total of the amounts of the items set forth in the main estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 1963, laid before the House of Commons at the present session of parliament, $1,666,406,647.92;

(b) an additional one third of the amounts of external affairs items 40, 45 , 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 107, 110, 120, 140 and 145, finance items 50 and 70, forestry item 11, legislation items 30 and 35, mines and technical surveys item 20, national defence item 70, national film board item 5, privy council item 40, public works item 200 and transport items 65 and 170, of the said estimates, $5,451,575.00;

(c) an additional one quarter of the amounts of forestry items 5 and 20, northern affairs and national resources item 10, loans, investments and advances items 120 and 125 of the said estimates, $3,199,700.00;

(d) an additional one sixth of the amounts of citizenship and immigration item 90, fisheries items 30 and 45, legislation item 25, mines and technical surveys items 30, 35, 80 and 130, northern affairs and national resources items 50 and 120, privy council item 30, transport items 60, 80, 85 and 125 of the said estimates, $4,550,983.34;

(e) an additional one twelfth of the amounts of external affairs item 35, fisheries items 25, 85 and 90, forestry items 15 and 25, labour items 5 and 40, mines and technical surveys items 40, 50, 70 and 100, national defence item 45, national film board item 1, national health and welfare item 25, national research council item 1, national revenue item 5, northern affairs and national resources items 15, 20, 25 , 45, 70, 75, 100, 108 and 118, public works item 190, trade and commerce item 26, transport items 30, 35, 40 120 and 222, veterans affairs item 60 of the said estimates, $25,101,441.67;

be granted to Her Majesty on account of the fiscal year ending March 31st, 1963.

He said: Mr. Chairman, I think perhaps the committee would be prepared to give consent to dispense with your reading of this resolution. Copies have been furnished to hon. members opposite and the details have been supplied to hon. members in the form in which they now appear before you. There are a great number of items and amounts here.

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LIB
PC

Paul Raymond Martineau (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

The Chairman:

Is it agreed that I dispense with reading the said document?

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?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinlon):

Mr. Chairman, the resolution asks for a vote of five months interim supply. Several weeks ago the house voted two months interim supply for the fiscal year which commenced on April 1, 1962. The addition of today's resolution will bring the total to seven months.

In this respect we are following the same course as was followed by our predecessors in 1949 and in 1957. In both of those years there was a dissolution of parliament in the month of April and an election in the month

of June, so that there are those two clear and recent precedents for the number of months for which supply is asked here.

In addition to an additional five twelfths of all items there are, of course, additional proportions, as is usual, with respect to certain items. These items relate to programs that do not lend themselves to a pro rata provision of supply month by month. For instance, there are numerous grants to international organizations where fixed sums have to be paid without regard to a month by month accrual. In addition, there are numerous programs of work involved in various departments which are concentrated in certain seasons of the year and, of course, the bulk of the concentrations are in the summer months. Therefore with respect to a number of items additional amounts are required.

But I do emphasize for the assurance of all hon. members that in no case do we ask for the full amount of any item. There will still be a proportion to be voted by parliament when parliament resumes in the autumn and accordingly the house can be assured of retaining its right of discussion with respect to any item. Furthermore, I give the usual undertaking that the passing of this measure will not prejudice the rights and privileges of members to criticize any item in the estimates when it comes up for consideration in committee of supply. The usual undertaking is hereby given that such rights and privileges will be respected and will not be curtailed or restricted in any way as a result of the passing of this measure.

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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

Mr. Chairman, the details of the proposed bill having to do with interim supply have been given to the official opposition. We have looked at them and I believe that on the face of it the statement made by the minister is in accordance with the fact that this has been the practice in previous years under similar circumstances. Had this measure been introduced prior to the statement made by the Prime Minister concerning the date of the election, there would unquestionably have been strenuous opposition from this side of the house. However, now that we know the date of the election and as the proposed bill is couched in the language we now have before us there would be no purpose in objecting to its form or substance.

I note also that in his statement the minister has made it quite clear that members of the opposition and, for that matter, members of the house, will retain their right to discuss any of these items at a future time and he has given his undertaking that the voting of this interim supply will not in any way prejudice the right of members to criticize these items. In view of the fact that the form

and substance of the bill are similar to what was proposed when we were on the other side of the house, there is no objection on our part to the measure in its present form.

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April 18, 1962