April 12, 1962

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Neil Alexander Matheson

Mr. Maiheson:

I have been asked by an hon. member in his seat to name them. I shall mention one person by name who brought this matter to my attention very recently. It was Dr. C. P. Wright who is British, who holds a Ph.D. degree and who has scholarly background in juridical matters and British constitutional procedure. Some time ago I placed on the order paper question 359 relating to the printing and the distribution of the bill of rights or the so-called bill of rights, since, when we examine the document in question of which 20,000 copies have been distributed all over Canada, we find that it really is not the bill of rights at all but is only a part of the bill of rights.

It actually appears to be part I but it is not that alone. The art work is of the finest. It is a tribute to the abilities of the artists on the staff of the Queen's printer, particularly Yvonne Diceman. If we take the answers given by the Secretary of State the other day it would appear that the idea was that of Yvonne Diceman and the Queen's printer alone.

[Mr. Pickersgill.l

Here is a document which has gone all over the country in volume. It has gone to many schools and many areas where there are new Canadians and people with very limited knowledge of legal and constitutional matters and civil liberties. Here we have a part of the act with the most beautiful art work possible. The heraldic work is excellent. But with part I of the act there is also an extract from the speech of the Prime Minister, with the words underneath, "The Right Honourable John G. Diefenbaker, Prime Minister of Canada, House of Commons Debates, July 1, 1960". In ink of another colour is the signature of the Prime Minister and it would appear as though he had signed each individual copy.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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Neil Alexander Matheson

Mr. Maiheson:

Mr. Chairman, I thank the supporters of the government for their applause but I think there is a principle involved here and we have to have courage enough to stand up and say that under these circumstances this is not a proper expenditure of the public printing and stationery branch. I would ask hon. gentlemen in this house, and we are all gentlemen-

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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Mr. Marlel@

Except the ladies.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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Neil Alexander Matheson

Mr. Maiheson:

Yes, except the more beautiful and talented members of the house- to consider what they would think if, for example, when old age pensions were introduced or the veterans charter or legislation relating to NATO or family allowances or the St. Lawrence seaway, the Queen's printer and the heraldic artist had produced a document of this kind over the signature of the Right Hon. Louis St. Laurent or the Right Hon. William Lyon Mackenzie King. There would have been outcry from coast to coast.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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LIB
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Neil Alexander Matheson

Mr. Maiheson:

Actually many lawyers were concerned about the bill of rights. We know that the dominion council of the Canadian bar association urged the Minister of Justice to withhold the legislation because it was in many respects misleading and because it was not clear what liberties if any it was intended to alter or enlarge. I do not intend to touch on that aspect but I do intend to touch on the fact that this particular document with all this art work which has been distributed at public expense has been used deliberately to convey the false impression that this country has received new liberties and that these are the gift of the gentleman who now presides as Prime Minister of Canada.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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PC

John Ferguson Browne

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Browne (Vancouver-Kingsway):

On a

point of order, Mr. Chairman-

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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Neil Alexander Matheson

Mr. Malheson:

I would refer to a recent issue of the Toronto Telegram-

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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PC

John Ferguson Browne

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Browne (Vancouver-Kingsway):

On a

point of order, Mr. Chairman, surely the business of the house at the present time does not justify the hon. member getting up and arguing against the bill of rights which was properly passed by this house and badly needed by the country after the Liberal administration.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinlon):

On the point of order, Mr. Chairman, the hon. member is dealing with a particular publication. I would be very pleased to have the opportunity of commenting on his remarks but I must observe that the item now under discussion has nothing to do with the matter he is discussing.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

Distribution of official documents.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinlon):

This item has to do with several specific matters. There is an increase of $20,000 required to meet the cost of extra charges resulting from the establishment of Queen's printers bookshops in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa, an item of $10,000 which represents an additional commitment authority on advertising to promote the sale of books printed in this fiscal year, and an item of $5,500 for freight, express, cartage and postage.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

On the point of order, Mr. Chairman, there have been a number of questions asked of the ministry concerning the matter that my hon. friend is discussing now, more particularly of the Secretary of State who answered some in part and did not answer others. I submit that under the title "Public Printing and Stationery, Distribution of Official Documents" the hon. member is surely entitled to make the points he is making. Perhaps the point has been raised by the Minister of Finance because he is so sensitive about what is being said that he does not like the argument that is being made. I suggest that the hon. member is perfectly in order.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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PC

Gordon Campbell Chown (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Progressive Conservative

The Deputy Chairman:

If I may intercede for a moment, may I say I would feel a little more comfortable if the hon. member for Leeds would discuss what he is bringing to the attention of the committee under the next item which has to do with printing and binding official publications for sale and distribution to departments and the public. Perhaps if we could pass this particular item we could go on from there.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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Item agreed to. Supply-Secretary of State 740. Printing and binding official publications for sale and distribution to departments and the public -further amount required, $200,000.


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Neil Alexander Matheson

Mr. Malheson:

Mr. Chairman, I do not want to belabour the point I have been making and I do not wish to speak at length. I think I have made my point. It is one which is rather important to some people. May I summarize my remarks by saying that any act passed by the House of Commons is an act of the parliament of Canada and if any person is to sign such a document surely it should be the Governor General.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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NDP

Murdo William Martin

New Democratic Party

Mr. Marlin (Essex Easl):

Have you never heard of King John?

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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An hon. Member:

We have heard of Mackenzie King.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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PC

John Andrew W. Drysdale

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drysdale:

That is why we needed a bill of rights.

Topic:   PUBLIC PRINTING AND STATIONERY
Subtopic:   SECRETARY OF STATE
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April 12, 1962