April 12, 1962

LIB

Lester Bowles Pearson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. Pearson:

Having changed the order of business without informing the opposition, who were told last night what the order was to be, until 11.30 this morning, the minister talks about facilitating orderly procedure. The minister says that discussion of the further supplementary estimates bogged down. There were hundreds of millions of dollars involved, but discussion bogged down because the government saw fit to introduce legislation which was of no great urgency at all one item of which could not be effective during this parliament. So our discussion of the supplementary estimates was stopped though we should have tried our best to get them through before the end of the financial year. We stopped discussion of the supplementary estimates before the end of the year.

However, when we were discussing these estimates last we were discussing item 729. That item was not adjourned and when we are coming back to supplementary estimates surely that is the item we should begin with. We know perfectly well why the government do not want to discuss item 729. They are afraid to discuss this whole question of General McNaughton-

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?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh.

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Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

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An hon. Member:

Nonsense.

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LIB

Lester Bowles Pearson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. Pearson:

-and in order to avoid that discussion they are trying to postpone consideration of this item.

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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinton):

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, the Leader of the Opposition, of course, has imputed motives and that is the plainest kind of breach of the rules of the house. I had hoped that in response to a proposal that was made with a view to effecting the orderly dispatch of the business of the house we might have had a constructive response. The Leader of the Opposition is basing his remarks now, as did the hon. member for Kootenay West, on a statement that is completely wrong. It just is not true.

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NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. Herridge:

You have the officials all here.

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LIB

Lester Bowles Pearson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. Pearson:

I have the floor, Mr. Chairman, and the minister interrupted me.

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An hon. Member:

He is on a point of order.

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LIB

Lester Bowles Pearson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. Pearson:

What is the point of order?

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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinton):

The point of order is that the Leader of the Opposition has broken the rules of the house by imputing motives. That is completely out of order, as he well knows. I have given the reason and he has no right to impute motives. I can assure you, Mr. Chairman, there is no fear on the part of the government.

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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

You are scared to death.

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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinton):

Let us have an orderly discussion on item No. 729, and not misleading statements of the kind made by the hon. member for Kootenay West, which are now concurred in by the Leader of the Opposition.

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LIB

Lester Bowles Pearson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. Pearson:

I agree with the minister; let us have an orderly discussion of item No. 729. That is the item we were discussing when we adjourned consideration of the estimates. Let us be orderly and continue to discuss what was under consideration at that time. That would be the orderly and proper way of getting the estimates through. The minister says he is anxious to be orderly. Therefore let us be orderly and start where we left off with item No. 729.

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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinton):

The hon. member for Kootenay West several times this afternoon has made the statement that the gallery was filled with officials from the water resources branch of the department of northern affairs-

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NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. Herridge:

And there they are.

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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinton):

Mr. Chairman, there are exactly two officials, only two officials from that branch.

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PC

David Vaughan Pugh

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pugh:

It shows how much he knows about the subject.

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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinlon):

The hon. member must realize how completely misleading was his statement. The government has the right to call the business of the day. The business that has been appointed for today is supplementary estimates, commencing with item No. 730. I trust we shall be able to dispose of these remaining items and return quickly to whatever debate is desired on item No. 729 and on the external affairs items which were stood over at the request of hon. members opposite.

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LIB

Lester Bowles Pearson (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Liberal

Mr. Pearson:

Would the minister repeat the reason we cannot go on with item No. 729 now?

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April 12, 1962