March 22, 1962

PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

The Minister of Justice has the floor. The minister is entitled to make his argument. I find it difficult to follow because of interruptions.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

Leon David Crestohl

Liberal

Mr. Crestohl:

These juvenile backbenchers.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

There have been interjections from both sides of the house. I invite hon. members to give the minister who has but a few minutes, a clear opportunity to present his argument.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

There is very little argument.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

I am nearly through, Mr. Speaker. I have only the following two points to make. The hypothetical or alleged document the production of which is now sought would, if it existed, be current. That results inevitably from the terms of the hon. member's resolution.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

It is being hidden.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

The hon. member in his resolution asked for the production of the most recent in an alleged series of documents. The hon. gentleman seeks the production of a current document which he well knows-

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

Which the Prime Minister said we hid.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

-it is not the practice to produce, for reasons which he also well knows; whereas the production of the other document on the previous occasion was the production of a document which was no longer current. Therefore the two circumstances are entirely different.

But third, Mr. Speaker, my colleague has said that there is no such document. Therefore my argument may be summarized as follows.

First, there is no such document. Second, there is no precedent for its production, even if such a document existed. Third, since it is perfectly obvious that all we

are being asked to do by my hon. friends opposite is to establish as a practice that which they themselves have said they regard as a mistake, I am confident that this house will treat the motion with the contempt it deserves.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

Is the house ready for the question?

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I believe I would have a moment or two in which to reply.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Gordon Minto Churchill (Minister of Veterans Affairs; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Churchill:

No.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

Is this not a substantive motion?

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

I believe that the motion is a substantive one.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

Speaking on the point of order, Mr. Speaker, may I say this. Surely the mover has a right of reply.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

If the hon. member speaks now he will close the debate.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Bonavisia-Twillin-gate):

I wish to speak now to close the debate. I agree completely with one thing the Minister of Justice said. I agree completely that it would be quite wrong to have this motion passed. It would be contrary to good parliamentary practice. It would be contrary to the proper relationship between public servants and public men which existed up until January 20, 1958 and which was destroyed by the improper publication of the document referred to in my motion by the Prime Minister on that occasion. The only reason I had for making this motion was to put on record something to remind the people of Canada that the Prime Minister himself had said that the previous government should have published that document when it was current.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

Oh, no. I rise on a question of privilege, Mr. Speaker. The hon. member has misstated what was said. What the Prime Minister said was that the former government should not have attempted to deceive the people as to what was in the document.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

That is not a question of privilege. It is just wasting time. The Prime Minister said the document was hidden.

He said, "They concealed the facts". He said, "They did not tell us what the facts were".

The Prime Minister also said-and this was in reply to Mr. Knowles-"It is assumed it has been tabled". He did not know whether or not it had been tabled when he started to use it. All he knew was that he had torn the top page off it with the word "confidential" in order to try to cover up.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Gordon Minto Churchill (Minister of Veterans Affairs; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Churchill:

I rise on a point of order, it.

Economic Forecast for Current Year

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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March 22, 1962