March 22, 1962

LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

And which should have been revealed without a motion of this kind being put forward. The man who signed the economic report of 1957, produced on January 20, 1958, Mr. Mitchell Sharp, said-

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Gordon Minto Churchill (Minister of Veterans Affairs; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Progressive Conservative Party House Leader)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Churchill:

Order.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

He said:

Look at what happened to the economic outlook reports-

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

Order. There appears to be some question as to the relevancy of the line of argument the hon. member is following. The motion is to produce a current document. The hon. member is seeking to introduce what Mr. Mitchell Sharp said about a document in 1958.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

What I am seeking-

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

I fail to see the relevance of that at this moment. Perhaps before the hon. member proceeds he could tell me what is the relevance.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

I can appreciate Your Honour's difficulty and I want to help Your Honour, because you do approach these things with an impartiality which all of us in this house greatly respect.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Clifford Silas Smallwood

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Smallwood:

The hon. member for Hull certainly did not.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

What I am seeking to do is analyse the words of the Minister of Trade and Commerce. I am saying that, having in mind what his predecessor said, what has been the practice throughout, and in the light of the words used by the

present Minister of Trade and Commerce, it cannot now be concluded that he is not in receipt of reports which in principle constitute what the Prime Minister gave to this house, improperly, on January 20, 1958.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

George Harris Hees (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

Don't be ridiculous.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

I say to the Minister of Trade and Commerce-

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

George Harris Hees (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

And I say to you, "Stop being ridiculous; stop being pompous".

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

-do not preclude us from obtaining information which you have in your possession-

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

George Harris Hees (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

I have not.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

-and which the Prime Minister said should be given to the house and it should not require a motion to obtain it. It is because I am seeking to establish that the words used by the Minister of Trade and Commerce really mean, in effect, that there are documents, that I am referring to these words of a former deputy minister of trade and commerce.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

With due respect to the hon. member's argument, I cannot see the relevance of recalling the words of a civil servant who is not now in the department and does not know what the practice is at the present time.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

George Harris Hees (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

On a question of privilege, the hon. member has persistently said that there is a document similar to a document which I say does not exist. I have told him over and over again that I receive information almost daily from my economists, verbally and by way of working papers. There is nothing in the form of a formal report such as the hon. member is asking for. It does not exist. I receive information at various times and in various forms, but I receive nothing in the form of a document of the kind the hon. member is asking for. He says I have it. I have told him I do not have it, and he must take my word for it.

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

I have been a little troubled over that aspect of the argument. It is customary in the house to accept the word-

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

Can I say a word on the question of privilege?

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

If he feels he has to, the hon. member may do so later on.

It has been the practice of most hon. members to accept the word of another member given in his place-

Topic:   MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Subtopic:   ECONOMIC FORECAST FOR CURRENT YEAR
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March 22, 1962