March 15, 1962

LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Hon. Lionel Chevrier (Laurier):

I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Labour. In view of the fact that the joint release of his department and the dominion bureau of statistics concerning the labour force in Canada is, as a rule, issued before the middle of the month, may I inquire whether the minister will be receiving those figures today and whether he will be in a position to table them so that we might have cognizance of them today?

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   REQUEST FOR TABLING OF REPORT ON LABOUR FORCE
Permalink
PC

Michael Starr (Minister of Labour)

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Michael Starr (Minister of Labour):

Mr. Speaker, if we look back over the years at the dates upon which the dominion bureau of statistics has issued a release on employment and unemployment, I think it will be found that there is a variation month by month and year by year, and that there is not any specified date. I think there is a difference of as much as eight or nine days in the dates of the issuance of this release. I do not know ahead of time when they are going to release it. I do not get the report any sooner than the hon. member, or any sooner than the report is available to him. The dominion bureau of statistics prepares this report along with the economics branch of the labour department, and we await it from month to month. I think the statement that ordinarily it does come out at the middle of the month is incorrect.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   REQUEST FOR TABLING OF REPORT ON LABOUR FORCE
Permalink
LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

On that point, Mr. Speaker, may I say that I have here the releases for the last three months, and they are all before the 15th with the exception of one.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   REQUEST FOR TABLING OF REPORT ON LABOUR FORCE
Permalink
PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

Order. I do not think the hon. member would be within his right in debating the question of the time of release, other than to ask a supplementary question if any arises. It has been indicated by the minister that the matter is not really one under his control.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   REQUEST FOR TABLING OF REPORT ON LABOUR FORCE
Permalink

EXTERNAL AFFAIRS


On the orders of the day:


NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):

Mr. Speaker, I wish to address a question to the Prime Minister. I trust he realizes that these questions are advanced in a spirit of cooperation to assist him to unveil this mystery and deal effectively with future situations.

In view of the report in the Globe and Mail of March 15 that soldiers caught smuggling in Indo-China late in 1961 were dealt with on the spot by their commanding officers, and apparently quite lightly; and since under the National Defence Act the maximum punishment that can be imposed by a commanding officer is three months' detention, could the Prime Minister inform the house why so lenient a view was taken of these deplorable crimes, and could he assure the house that all future proven cases of smuggling by members of the armed forces will be dealt with by courtmartial?

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
PC

Douglas Scott Harkness (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Hon. D. S. Harkness (Minister of National Defence):

Mr. Speaker, I think this question should more properly have been addressed to me as Minister of National Defence. First of

26207-1-115i

Inquiries of the Ministry all I should like to say that I think the hon. member has a rather peculiar view of the administration of justice, in that the whole tenor of his question was along the line that any person suspected or accused of a particular crime is more or less automatically guilty and must be dealt with accordingly. When a man in the army is suspected of a particular crime-and the same thing applies in civil life-the first thing that has to be done is to secure sufficient evidence to establish a prima facie case. On the basis of what the investigation discloses the man's commanding officer determines whether he should be dealt with summarily or whether he should be tried by courtmartial. It is not the function of the government to state that a particular case shall be dealt with by court-martial. Is is for the law officers in the J.A.G.'s branch, the commanding officer and the commander of the command that the man happens to be in to determine the particular procedure to be followed. I can assure the hon. member and other hon. members that all due regard is being paid to the proper course that should be followed in the administration of justice in the army.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Hon. Lionel Chevrier (Laurier):

Mr. Speaker, I should like to ask a supplementary question arising out of that statement. Is it not a fact that the Minister of National Defence took exactly the same position as the hon. member has taken when the minister in his former capacity as minister of agriculture dealt in the same manner with one Mitchell, an employee of his department in Montreal? Does the minister not recall that?

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
PC

Douglas Scott Harkness (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

No.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

Order. I take it the hon. member for Laurier is referring to some matter of the past by way of argument rather than asking for information. As it has gone that far, perhaps the minister might want to comment.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

He took exactly the same position he is complaining about.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
PC

Douglas Scott Harkness (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

With regard to the particular case to which the hon. member refers, he is talking about one of his political henchmen who was caught contravening the rules and regulations of the department, abusing his position-

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

And never tried notwithstanding the bill of rights.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
PC

Douglas Scott Harkness (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

-as a member of the staff of the Department of Agriculture.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

Guilty by association.

Inquiries of the Ministry

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
PC

Douglas Scott Harkness (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Harkness:

-and was dismissed as a result of those actions.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

Mr. Speaker, the statement which has been made by the minister-

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Order.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink
LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

I rise on a point of order. The statement made by the minister is not only inaccurate but also wholly untrue. It is untrue, sir.

Topic:   LABOUR CONDITIONS
Subtopic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Sub-subtopic:   PUNISHMENT FOR SMUGGLING BY MEMBERS OF ARMED FORCES
Permalink

March 15, 1962