Mr. Montgomery:

Why don't you sit down then?

Mr. Chevrier:

-and the house leader to the effect that we on this side of the house were holding up these estimates and that people were going to be unpaid because of the fact that these estimates were not going through.

Mr. Montgomery:

That is very true.

Mr. Chevrier:

Somebody said, "That is very true". If that is very true, then those who sit on the other side of the house certainly are not assisting in passing these estimates and in seeing that these people are being paid or are about to be paid. I am therefore getting curious, Mr. Chairman, and I should like to find out from the Minister of Labour if he can tell the committee whether the government has run out of money on this estimate. I think the house is entitled to know.

Mr. Starr:

I will answer that now, Mr. Chairman. When we first put in an amount we could not properly anticipate what the exact amount would be, but now that many of these buildings are under construction and payments have to be made this is the amount required to carry on up until March 31.

Mr. Chevrier:

That is exactly the point. I have asked a question but I have not received an answer.

He said yes.

Mr. Chevrier:

If that is the case, and I thank the member for that interjection, I think the house is entitled to know what is being held up. Where are the buildings that are being held up? Where have you had to stop construction? The house is entitled to know because after all the Minister of Finance made it quite clear that he did not want to curtail debate directly in any way, although by inference that is exactly what he was trying to do. He did not want to curtail debate but he wanted the house to know how some of these people were going to be affected both directly and indirectly.

These estimates have been held up for the last 30 minutes by the chief whip, and I think the house is entitled to know far more than the minister has told us. I submit with deference, sir, that the minister should answer the four questions I put on this item with regard to where and how the money is being held up.

Supply-Labour

Mr. Pickersgill:

Is the minister not going to answer?

Mr. Chevrier:

Is the minister not going to answer those questions?

Mr. Starr:

I do not know what the member for Laurier means by the money being held up. This is an estimate on the part of the department as to the amount of money we will need up to March 31st to reimburse the provinces for expenditures they will have incurred up until that time, and nothing more. It is based on information we have been able to get from the provinces.

Mr. Pickersgill:

That is a most ridiculous answer. What we were told by the Minister of Finance today was that people were not going to be paid if these estimates were not passed immediately. We want to know who is not going to be paid if this particular estimate does not pass. We do not really have much confidence in these broad statements of the Minister of Finance, and with very good reason. Ever since that affair last summer we know what value is to be placed on statements made by the Minister of Finance-

Order.

Mr. Pickersgill:

-and everybody knows what I am referring to. We also know the kind of language that the Minister of Finance would have used about this matter, language that I would not use at all; but what I am saying is, let the minister tell us who is not being paid because the money in this item has not yet been voted. Who is it that is not being paid?

The provinces.

Mr. Pickersgill:

What job is being held up? Let the minister answer that question or by his silence show that in this particular at any rate it was just another big bluff by the Minister of Finance.

Mr. Bell (Carleton):

A totally ridiculous speech, as usual.

Mr. Pickersgill:

You asked for it. That great bluff comes in here-

Mr. Bell (Carleton):

The hon. gentleman has done nothing else but bluff.

Mr. Chevrier:

Don't you become like the Minister of Finance.