March 15, 1962

LIB

Paul Theodore Hellyer

Liberal

Mr. Hellyer:

I am prepared to allow the people of the country to interpret my speech for themselves. They have learned to read, you know.

Mr. Pallet!: And so we had the two of them, Mr. Chairman, and also some of the other socialists condemning every person who has anything to do with the educational systems in the provinces for accepting and carrying out this program.

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NDP

Erhart Regier

New Democratic Party

Mr. Regier:

Are there no teachers among the Tories?

Mr. Pallet!: What did the hon. member say?

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NDP

Erhart Regier

New Democratic Party

Mr. Regier:

Is there not a teacher in the Conservative ranks who knows what he is talking about?

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Supply-Labour

Mr. Pallet!: I would point out to the hon.

member that the Minister of National Defence was once a teacher, as was the Minister of Agriculture.

I believe the Minister of Trade and Commerce, or rather, the Minister of Veterans Affairs was once a teacher.

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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

Did you say the Minister of Trade and Commerce?

Mr. Pallet!: I said the Minister of Veterans Affairs.

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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I ask, because that would strain our credulity.

Mr. Pallet!: Other members of the government, the Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources and the Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys, were university professors.

In any event there is no monopoly of members of the teaching profession in the group which the hon. gentleman is a member. There are in this party those who are fully capable of playing an important part in the free enterprise system and of instilling in our young people a proper belief in the future of their country. That is why I suggest that the remarks of the hon. member for Peterborough dealing with the subject must be regarded as an indication of a complete misunderstanding of the program by a person who should have an understanding of it. He talks about the program in Ontario not providing the type of training that it should provide. Both he and the hon. member for Trinity indicated a complete lack of understanding of the Robarts system, if you like to call it that-

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LIB

Paul Theodore Hellyer

Liberal

Mr. Hellyer:

Oh, of course.

Mr. Pallet!: -or of the three streams: the scientific technical and trade stream; the business and economics stream; and the arts and sciences stream. These are things which a teacher who is very soon going to be engaged in the full time occupation of teaching should be prepared to discuss in this chamber with some knowledge, rather than to criticize those people who are endeavouring to do important work in the provincial field in order to educate the young people of this country. The hon. member says, "What about the rural areas"? He objects to our giving, in co-operation with the provinces, the opportunity to these young people to-

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?

An hon. Member:

No.

Mr. Pallet!: I can only go by what the hon. member says. If he says he is wrong, that is all right. If he wishes to take it all back, and if he will stand up in this chamber and will retract everything he said, I will sit down.

Supply-Labour

However, he will not do that. He says we are wrong in giving an opportunity to the people in the rural areas. He says that we are wrong in providing accommodation so that they may fit into a technological age. He would uproot them from their homes and transport them to one central place.

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?

An hon. Member:

Nonsense.

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PC

John Cameron Pallett (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Palleii:

This is, of course, the system the socialists like. They like to get them all under one roof so they can take them away and put them under their own influence. They like to get them away from their homes and centralize them. This is socialist thinking. To them it is not right that the rural communities can train their people at home for jobs of the future. The hon. member talks about decentralizing industry. I have heard him say this in this chamber. Yet today, with regard to the very thing that will help this come about by training people in all the areas of Canada, he is objecting. Let us get the hon. member to be consistent in what he says.

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An hon. Member:

You could not possibly do that.

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PC

John Cameron Pallett (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Palleii:

That may be so. It may not be possible to get him to be consistent.

This is a good program, Mr. Chairman. It is a program designed to train the young people of this country to take their position in the society of the future, as the people who are skilled in the administration of education in this country see it.

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NDP

William Arnold Peters

New Democratic Party

Mr. Pelers:

It is designed only to build schools and nothing more.

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PC

John Cameron Pallett (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Palleii:

My hon. friend, who says he is a great authority, does not know, for instance, that in Ontario today 300 teachers are being specially trained to take part in this program, with 300 about to be trained especially in this program.

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NDP
PC

John Cameron Pallett (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Palleii:

It is not a six weeks course. If the hon. member for Burnaby-Coquitlam will stand up, if he is capable of doing so, and make his speech at the proper time, he will be allowed to do so. However, interruptions such as the one he has made are not only contrary to the rules but are also inaccurate. I should draw that fact to the hon. member's attention. It is not anything like a six weeks course to train the teachers. The people in this group to the left of you, Mr. Chairman, just do not know what is going on in this training program; yet they are the people who stand up and profess they do know. This is what prompted me to speak, Mr. Chairman, I did so in order that the

committee would not have unchallenged before it first, statements condemning every educationist in the provinces, and more particularly in the province of Ontario; second, completely inaccurate statements as to the program of training for the teachers; and third, to show the attitude about the future of the country, trying to decry the young people, and by the criticism of this scheme, trying to keep the young people out of it.

The hon. member for Peterborough said there will not be enough people to fill these schools. From where is he getting the information? Surveys are conducted by the boards of education of this province, who make recommendations on the basis of questionnaires answered by the students in consultation with their parents. Oh, he looks surprised. He does not know this is happening. He just does not have any idea of this happening, namely that the recommendations of the board are made on the basis of questionnaires answered by the students in consultation with their parents. After all who makes the final decision as to the education? It is the students in consultation with the parents.

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NDP
PC

John Cameron Pallett (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pallett:

No, not before they go to high school; it is both before and after. Again, Mr. Chairman, the interruption indicates a complete misunderstanding. They have their choice of the three streams. They can get into one of the three streams. At the end of the first year they can go to whichever one they wish, without any loss of educational time. That is an advance program. Oh, the hon. member for Port Arthur laughs. I suppose it is the laugh of the cynic. It fits him very well, I think. In their cynicism they refuse to give credit to a good program and a sound one. It is, of course, one which they are incapable of comprehending because it contains some imagination and something that will actually benefit the young people of the country. They may criticize, Mr. Chairman, but let us see what their people at home say about their criticisms. That is the final test. I have never heard one person in the educational system and charged with the responsibility of administering education in any province criticize this measure.

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LIB
PC

John Cameron Pallett (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pallett:

The hon. member for Trinity speaks from his seat, probably indicating that he has more brains there. I think that all members may lay some claim to some knowledge about education in the provinces; and I have never heard one suggestion from a person in the educational system in a province criticizing this scheme.

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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

I have listened carefully to what the chief whip has said, Mr. Chairman. He has spoken for nearly 30 minutes, although I am mindful of what we were told this afternoon by both the Minister of Finance-

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March 15, 1962