February 26, 1962

NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. Herridge:

No, Mr. Speaker. We are talking about the commanding heights of the economy, those sectors of the economy which have a controlling influence on the economic destiny of the nation. As we have said before, we believe in public ownership wherever it is socially desirable and wherever it is indicated that it is in the best interests of the nation. We believe in much larger development of the co-operative enterprise. We believe there is a tremendous opportunity for socially desirable and socially responsible legitimate free enterprise, which is found largely in smaller industries, community industries and services, small businesses, farming and so on. In those sectors you will find economic organizations or groups themselves, under a change in our philosophy, directing their own destiny, working together co-operatively in accord with a national plan which has in mind the over-all planning we suggest. We believe there is a great amount that government can do by giving some direction and some guidance, some central purpose, to the development of our economy. In those large sectors we suggest planning as I have mentioned, and in these other sectors we suggest the influence of government, smaller group organization and co-operation to bring about the same result.

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PC

Murray Douglas Morton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Morton:

May I ask the hon. gentleman a question?

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NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. Herridge:

Yes.

Alleged Lack of Economic Growth

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?

Mr. Morion@

Is he suggesting that no new enterprise should commence without government consent or that no investment should be made without government consent?

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NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. Herridge:

I am not suggesting that no investment should be made. I will illustrate the matter in this way. I mentioned this large pulp mill that is going to be built. I do not know where it is going to be built, as a matter of fact, but I know it is going to be built. It will make more acute the problems of producers now in operation at this time. This is the situation in various segments of the economy including the mining industry, the forest industry and large scale manufacturing. We believe that government policies must be such that they will have the power to control the situation so that there is no uneconomic investment-

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PC

John Ferguson Browne

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Browne (Si. John's Wesl):

Would the federal government have that power?

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NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. Herridge:

Yes. It would have great influence on it through taxation and fiscal policies. We recognize that this is not an easy problem to solve. You will have to have the co-operation of provincial governments in many of these fields in order to reach the desired objective. But we believe we must start in this direction. We do not underestimate the difficulty, but we are laying out a positive program rather than let the economy drift, in our opinion, as a free enterprise economy in which large scale investors have no concern for the other sectors of the country except their own. I am not blaming them a bit, because under present circumstances they are forced into that position.

Mr. Speaker, I observe people nodding their heads and waving to me. I am just doubting whether my time has nearly expired. In any event I am going to say this. A New Democratic government would take steps to end what we term this economic chaos. This party has no faith in the invisible hand, as I said before. What planning machinery would a New Democratic government establish? A planning board would be set up, staffed with specialists in various fields, including economists, statisticians, engineers, scientists and so on. This planning board would follow four basic steps:

1. Find out what the people want their economy to produce, and how they want it to perform.

2. Find out what the economy is capable of doing, based on the available resources and technology.

3. Set up a number of goals within the limits of the economy's capacity and based on the people's choices.

IMr. Herridge.]

4. Draft a plan which would so allocate our resources and technology that these goals could be attained.

This plan would be presented to the cabinet who would discuss it and, after making any changes that they deemed necessary, would present it to parliament for debate. That is when the Minister without Portfolio would have his opportunity if he were here at that time. If parliament passed the proposals outlined in the plan, the government would proceed to put it into action.

There are many details of such a plan. Some might say, how would the planners find out what the people want? Other members of our group will go into the matter of how the planners find out what the economy is capable of doing and how they set up goals for the economy. Our people have these things worked out in considerable detail. The techniques of planning are rather complex but the general ideas involved are fairly simple. First of all, we have the spending and taxing powers of the government. This very general approach, of course, is not adequate in itself. Government spending and taxation must vary for different sectors of the economy and different industries. For example, corporation taxes can be made higher for industries that are overinvesting and lower for those that need to invest more. Government spending should be heavy in those sectors of the economy such as social capital and those regions like the maritimes that have difficulty attracting the necessary private investment funds. We say that Conservative, Liberal and Social Credit governments have not used their spending and taxing powers in this way to influence the direction of investment.

Then there is the question of the Bank of Canada and monetary policy. The proper policy to follow during periods of inflation is to contract the money supply, which raises the interest rates on loans made by chartered banks. This makes it more difficult for businesses to acquire funds and thus helps prevent them from overinvesting under the wrong circumstances and conditions. In periods of recession and unemployment the proper policy is to expand the money supply, which lowers the interest rates on loans made by the chartered banks. This will make it easier for business people, municipalities and home builders to borrow money for needed investment to stimulate the economy. Money, in other words, should be tight in periods of inflation-I do not really like the word "tight" but it is very hard to find another word to express the idea-and easy in periods of recession.

We hear people say, would planning mean regimentation and loss of freedom? The planning board which a C.C.F. national government would establish would not govern the country. Its role is to use its specialized training to gather information and draw up plans. The final authority will always be the people themselves through their representatives in parliament. All plans drawn up by the planners would have to receive the approval of the elected cabinet before being presented to parliament for debate. After being presented for debate the people's representatives in all parties would have full opportunity to discuss the plan, propose amendments, and reject or accept it. That is democratic enough, is it not? Moreover, economic planning does not mean directing or regulating every economic act or even any large number of acts.

I could go on to deal with the Bank of Canada and monetary policy, the control of finances and the necessity for a Canadian development fund which we believe would channel investment into uses which today are neglected by the private investor. We believe in the planning of public investment. There is a great opportunity for public ownership and there are other planning agencies that could be developed. There are several besides the ones I have mentiond that have been present for some time in the Canadian economy and which could be used in the over-all planning process. We could utilize them to greater advantage. I give as examples Central Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the board of transport commissioners, the wheat board, the restrictive trade practices commission and the tariff board plus a large number of provincial agencies whose cooperation we would seek to obtain in giving effect to a program which would provide a national economic purpose for our country. Today there is no attempt to co-ordinate the work of these agencies with a national economic plan. A New Democratic government would co-ordinate their activities just as it would co-ordinate the activities of big business.

I say in conclusion that in an unplanned economy people have very little say about how their economy is to perform, what it is to produce, and so on. The only way they can express their wishes in an unplanned economy is by their purchases in the market place and this only works to their advantage if the market place is perfectly competitive. I might say that there are fields in the smaller areas of business and industry where they are competitive. In fact, of course, the market place is controlled in general by a handful of

Alleged Lack of Economic Growth firms in each industry so that to a very large extent the people's wishes can be ignored.

Democratic economic planning would give the people as a whole a degree of control over their own economic destiny which they do not now enjoy. Instead of just hoping for full employment, rapid growth and security they could take positive steps and participate in the planning to see that the economy provides these things. Economic planning does not impose choice; it allows choice where little now exists. It offers an opportunity for people in all walks of life to co-operate with the national and provincial governments with some purpose. It will give purpose to their lives, a sense of security and a central direction to our economic development. It offers freedom to the Canadian people in the fullest sense of the word.

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PC

George Harris Hees (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

Mr. Speaker,-

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PC

Paul Raymond Martineau (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

Order. The hon. member for Kootenay West has not finished his speech.

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NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. Herridge:

As an amendment to the amendment, Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. member for Vancouver East (Mr. Winch):

That the period at the end of the amendment be replaced by a comma and that the following words be added:

"by the expansion of public and co-operative ownership for such purposes as the operation of utilities, the development of resources, the elimination of monopoly concentrations of power, and the operation of major enterprises immediately and directly affecting the entire nation."

I move this subamendment to give some reality, shall I say, to the amendment moved by the official opposition. The few words contained therein represent the philosophy of our movement, and when the vote comes we hope that we will not only receive the support of members on the government side but also that of members of the official opposition.

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PC

George Harris Hees (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Hon. George H. Hees (Minister of Trade and Commerce):

Mr. Speaker, during the past weeks and months and again today we have heard a number of misleading speeches and have read a number of misleading articles and publications put out by the Liberal opposition, all attempting in some strange fashion to convey to the people of Canada that this country's economy has slowed down. In fact, I think the hon. member for Niagara Falls (Miss LaMarsh) used the word "stagnating" this afternoon. So, Mr. Speaker, we in the government welcome this opportunity to set the record right, and I should like to speak about the economy at this time under three headings. First of all, I should like to deal

12GB HOUSE OF

Alleged Lack of Economic Growth with the situation which this government found existing in Canada when we took office in June, 1957. Then, I should like to deal with the progress that has been made since that time. Finally, I should like to deal with the prospects for the future.

First, I shall begin with what we found when we took office in June, 1957. Early in 1957 it was apparent that two important changes had taken place in the trading world. The first was that the countries of western Europe and Japan had completely recovered from the devastation of war and, having rebuilt their economies and their productive machinery, were no longer customers for many of the products we had been selling them in large quantities since the end of the war. The second change was that these countries, having replaced their productive machinery with the most modern and efficient equipment in the world, were rapidly becoming very serious competitors for our market both around the world and right here in Canada itself.

In addition to these two disturbing facts of economic life which we discovered when we took over the government in June, 1957, we also found that the Canadian economy had been for some months steadily slowing down due to the tight money policy imposed by the Liberal government of that day. Government economists had, early in 1957, warned that industrial activity in Canada was contracting at an alarming rate. The government's tight money policy had made it impossible for industry to acquire the funds necessary to invest in new plant and equipment and in new inventory which it needed, and the expansion of the economy had slowed down accordingly.

Now, Mr. Speaker, faced with such a situation we immediately set about the task of readjusting the economy to the conditions of 1957. As a result of the policies which were adopted, the country came through this difficult period of readjustment fully as well as the United States which faced similar problems. In fact, Mr. Speaker, because of the corrective measures which were adopted so promptly there was less of a let-down in industrial activity in Canada than there was in the United States. The final proof of the effectiveness of this government's actions during these difficult years is the fact that the Canadian economy is again moving vigorously ahead. So that all members may know just what has been accomplished during the present government's term of office, I should like to cite some key economic indicators, and in each case I will show the increase that took place between 1956, the last full year when a Liberal government held office, and 1961.

[Mr. Hees.l

In so far as total employment is concerned, total employment increased between 1956 and 1961 by no less than 452,000 new jobs, a percentage increase of 8 per cent. The gross national product increased by $6.8 billion or 22 per cent. Exports increased by $900 million or 19 per cent. Imports were kept down to an increase of $200 million or an increase of 3.5 per cent. Total personal income increased by $6.8 billion, an increase of 30 per cent. Labour income increased by $4.6 billion, an increase of 30 per cent. Corporate profits increased by $207 million, an increase of 6.2 per cent. Industrial production increased by 15 per cent and consumer spending increased by $5.8 billion, an increase of 30 per cent. Total personal savings increased by $400 million, an increase of 30 per cent.

I feel, Mr. Speaker, that all hon. members, in fact all the people in the country, will agree that this performance, particularly when you take into consideration the very difficult conditions we faced when we took over the government in 1957, is a very creditable one indeed. However, Mr. Speaker, the most spectacular advance has taken place during the past year when the economy really started moving in high gear. I should like to give you some examples of just what has taken place during these past 12 months. The latest figures available in respect of export trade are for last November and we find that during the first 11 months of the year exports increased by 8 per cent over the first 11 months of the year before. This rate of increase was more than double the rate of increase for the last five years. During the last three months of that 11-month period, in other words last September, October and November, the rate of increase was 15 per cent over the same three months the year before. I think you will agree, Mr. Speaker, this indicates quite a remarkable rate of acceleration. First of all, you see a steady increase year by year and then during the past year double that rate of increase; and during the past three months the rate of increase was doubled again. This is acceleration if I ever saw it, Mr. Speaker.

During the first 11 months of the year we achieved a surplus trade balance of $27 million, the first surplus trade balance since 1952. In 1956, the last year of Liberal government, Canada had a trade deficit amounting to $713 million. So we see that during the past year we produced right here in Canada nearly three quarters of a billion dollars worth of goods which were formerly produced, under the Liberal government, outside of Canada and the production of which provided jobs for Canadians instead of for

workers in other countries. From November 1960 to November 1961, the last month for which figures are available, industrial production increased by 8 per cent. This was three times the rate of increase during the last five years, from the first to the third quarter of last year, that is within the brief period of six months, Canada's over-all production of goods and services in real terms rose by no less than 4.7 per cent. This rate of growth in national output exceeded that achieved in any like period in 14 of the last 15 years. I think everyone will agree that this has been quite a remarkable achievement under today's very competitive conditions. This growth has been achieved without any rise in the price level. In other words, not only is the present rate of growth of the Canadian economy comparable to any of the post-war years, but the absence of inflation indicates that it is proceeding on a sounder basis.

Between December 1960 and December 1961, employment increased by 180,000 new jobs. This was nearly double the rate of increase during the last five years. I should like also, Mr. Speaker, to cite some additional key indicators which are normally used to indicate industrial growth and which also demonstrate just where our economy has been moving during the past year. I will name the indicator, then the latest month in 1961 for which figures are available and then the percentage increase over the same month of the year before: Manufacturing employment,

December, up 6 per cent; new orders in manufacturing, November, up 9 per cent; construction contract awards, December, up 15 per cent; production of motor vehicles, December, up 14 per cent; production of textiles, November, up 15 per cent; production of petroleum, November, up 32 per cent; production of nickel, November, up 28 per cent; production of steel ingots, probably the best key indicator of all, and this is basic steel, was up a remarkable 37 per cent.

Now I should like to underline what this government has done to assist industry achieve this very spectacular result during the past year.

1. First of all we lowered the exchange rate to a more realistic ratio with other world currencies, which had the effect of making Canadian exports more competitive in world markets. It has discouraged excessive imports and has provided a needed impetus to our tourist industry. The full benefits of this step should be felt increasingly during the present year.

2. We have held trade and industrial conferences in Ottawa and in all the provinces to bring the services of the Department of

Alleged Lack of Economic Growth Trade and Commerce directly to businessmen in all parts of Canada. By so doing we have stimulated their interest in going into the export market and helped them to produce more efficiently and effectively for the home market. More than 5,600 businessmen have attended these conferences.

3. We have greatly expanded our trade mission and trade fair programs to show businessmen the opportunities which exist in foreign markets and to help them display their products in those markets. Those programs will be pushed forward and expanded vigorously during the present year. Businessmen have co-operated enthusiastically in the development of our trade mission and trade fair programs.

4. We have introduced export credit facilities to provide long term financing for capital goods exports. Sales to date for which contracts have been signed and which were made possible by the use of export credits amount to approximately $41 million; and credits which have been authorized by the government, but for which sales are still being negotiated by the companies concerned, amount to approximately $114 million.

5. We had our trade commissioners survey the markets they are serving and report on any products made in Canada for which there is a demand in their market or in which they believe our present sales could expand. The result of this survey was that last June we were able to advise producers right across Canada of more than 2,500 market opportunities waiting for aggressive salesmen with a good product at a competitive price.

6. We have greatly expanded the functions of the Industrial Development Bank to provide small and medium sized firms with a larger source of working capital.

7. We have made available loans to small businesses, to release working capital for these small but very important industries which previously had no alternative source of funds for growth.

8. We have introduced accelerated depreciation to encourage production of new products and the establishment of new industries in labour surplus areas. Since March of last year the department has approved applications for double depreciation on assets valued at close to $110 millions. Sixty per cent of the approved assets relate to firms located in surplus manpower areas, and a wide variety of new products will be manufactured with the approved assets. They include new types of steel, chemicals, electronics, plastics, foods, paper, textiles, and many other products. At the present time applications for an additional $55 million are being considered by my department.

Alleged Lack of Economic Growth

9. We have set up the national productivity-council to help industry become more competitive, and thereby provide more sales and more jobs.

10. We have established a national design council and a national design branch within my department to assist Canadian industries with their design problems and, by encouraging improved design, make possible more sales and more jobs.

11. We have introduced a domestic commerce service which is a completely new arm of the department and has been created to help new industry become established and expand.

I believe all hon. members will agree that the production figures I mentioned a few moments ago show more clearly than any words I could utter just what has been achieved by the co-operative effort of government and industry during the past year, and what can be achieved in the future if we continue the same teamwork effort. In the kind of competitive world in which we find ourselves today nothing less than that kind of effort will do.

The important thing is to keep intact the present teamwork effort between industry and government. The Liberal opposition are making all kinds of extravagant promises in a desperate effort to regain power but remember, Mr. Speaker, they are the same people who slowed down the economy in 1957 with their tight money policy, and they can be counted on to apply the same tight money policy again if they should ever regain office, and slow down the economy the same as they did in late 1956 and early 1957. There never existed any teamwork effort between last Liberal government and industry, simply because that government was not interested in co-operating with industry. It is just as simple as that, and if anybody doubts my words all he has to do is speak to any businessman in any part of Canada and he will say that that is so.

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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

How ridiculous can you get?

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PC

George Harris Hees (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

The thing which amazes businessmen is that when they come down to see this government they find they are treated courteously. We receive them and look for ways to help them instead of finding ways in which to brush them off quickly, as happened under the Liberal government.

It is vitally important that the present government should stay in control of the economy, and it is going to do just that. There is no doubt about it, and thus it will be able to maintain the present teamwork effort which is paying off in such a spectacular fashion today. Under this government, and with the

kind of co-operation we have had between industry and government, we can continue to work steadily forward towards full employment and the greatest prosperity this country has ever known.

That success story which I have just related to the house, that record of prosperity and that record of increasing employment is simply killing the Liberal opposition. Their plans have been completely upset. They have been desperately hoping for increased unemployment to help them in the next election, but instead of increasing unemployment they are being met with increasing employment and increasing prosperity, and so they have switched to a different tack. This tack encompasses a series of personal attacks, more of which we can expect to hear from now on.

This plan of campaign was first indicated in an article in Macleans magazine last fall, an article written by Peter Newman, and I might add that that magazine has never been unfriendly to the Liberal opposition. The first implementation of that new policy took place in this house last Thursday, a disgraceful performance if there ever was one. It was a vicious attack on the Prime Minister, a completely unfounded and untrue attack in which there wasn't a word of truth, and it was made by the hon. member for Richelieu-Vercheres (Mr. Cardin).

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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I am rising on a point of order. Mr. Speaker, it is a well known rule of this house that it is not competent for any hon. member, even a minister of the crown, to seek to revive a debate which has already been concluded by a vote in this house, and neither is it competent for him to refer to speeches made in another debate. That rule has always, to my knowledge, been enforced in the house and I hope it will1 be enforced in this case.

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PC

Paul Raymond Martineau (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Deputy Speaker:

It is a rule of the house not to refer to debates which have already been completed in the same session unless there is a direct bearing on the subject under discussion. I trust the hon. minister will relate his remarks to the amendment and to the subamendment now being considered.

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PC

George Harris Hees (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

I can understand the sensitivity of the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate regarding that speech, because I understand he wrote a very great deal of it.

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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I hate to waste the time of the house by rising on a question of privilege but it is just possible that someone outside the house might believe what the minister has said. I hasten to assure the house, which already knows it, that the statement just made by the minister is unqualifiedly false.

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PC

George Harris Hees (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hees:

Well, whoever did write that vicious, guttersnipe, back alley speech should be thoroughly ashamed of himself. It was a disservice to this house that that speech was ever uttered and I hope another like it is never heard in this chamber. We have laid before the people facts regarding the program we have carried on for the benefit of the people of this country during the four and a half years since we took office. This has been done in speeches by the Prime Minister, by myself and by other members of the government. We have outlined what is, I think, an excellent record. Moreover, the Prime Minister has indicated the excellent program we have for the future of this country. And, as my right hon. friend said recently, we shall be very glad to let the people judge that performance and that program for Canada's continued rapid development in the not too distant future.

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LIB

Chesley William Carter

Liberal

Mr. C. W. Carter (Burin-Burgeo):

Mr. Speaker, the minister has made a brave effort to reassure himself and his supporters that all is well with the economy of Canada. He has cited figures which related to the past year and, more particularly to an upswing in the last quarter of last year, and has presented that as representing a picture of the economy throughout the whole period of four years, or more that this government has been in power.

The minister should know that figures for part of a year, even if they show a slight upswing, do not represent a sound economy any more than one swallow does not make a summer. Nothing that the minister has said can alter the fact that during the last four years and more during which this government has been in office the economy has expanded by only about 1.5 per cent per year as compared with 6 per cent per year in the previous five year period under the Liberal government.

My colleague the hon. member for Niagara Falls (Miss LaMarsh) has already referred to this stagnation in our development and has spoken of the steps which a Liberal government would take to correct it. I should like to develop this theme a little further and in so doing I propose to confine my remarks to the position of the Atlantic provinces.

I think it was Lincoln who said that no nation could survive half slave and half free. I think it is equally correct to say that no nation can survive half rich and half poor. In the light of the present challenge to our democratic way of life perhaps we could go further and say that no society can survive half rich and half poor. We recognize the importance of the economic front in the war of ideas in which we are now engaged by

Alleged Lack of Economic Growth providing assistance to the under developed countries of the world. Surely we cannot afford to be less concerned about the underdeveloped parts of our own country.

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PC

Joseph Warner Murphy

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Murphy:

Mention the provincial grants, then.

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February 26, 1962