June 8, 1961


Item agreed to. 415. Construction or acquisition of auto-ferry vessels and equipment as listed in the details of the estimates, provided that treasury board may increase or decrease the amount within the vote to be expended upon individual listed projects $1,545,000.


LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

Mr. Chairman, I believe this vote is exclusively in respect to the car ferry that is to go into service between Cape Tormentine and Borden. Could the minister inform the committee what date it is expected that this vessel will go into operation?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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PC

Léon Balcer (Minister of Transport)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Balcer:

The delivery date was to be during the autumn of this year but, because of the delay caused by the strike which I mentioned earlier, it has been extended to mid-winter.

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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

In that event, there is no assurance that the same terrible conditions will not exist for at least part of next winter that existed up until May of this year. Of course, the minister is not responsible for the ice even though he does have charge of meteorological services, but he will appreciate that the situation was quite deplorable. The minister must also be aware that about the time the ice conditions were the worst, the Abegweit was taken off service and put into drydock for refitting because, it was stated, she would lose her place in the queue. It is obvious that there is not enough shipping capacity to get the people across, and I should like to know whether the minister

expects that the new vessels will be put in operation before the causeway is ready.

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PC

Léon Balcer (Minister of Transport)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Balcer:

Yes, a few years before that. Item agreed to.

Payments to the Canadian National Railway Company (hereinafter called the company) upon applications approved by the Minister of Transport made by the company to the Minister of Finance, to be applied by the company in payment of the deficits, certified by the auditors of the company, arising in the operations in the calendar year 1961-

418. Newfoundland ferry and terminals, $6,585,000.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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PC

Robert Hardy Small

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Small:

Mr. Chairman, I do not know whether this is the right item in respect to which I should raise my question, because there is no reference to money beside it. All it says is:

Payments to the Canadian National Railway Company (hereinafter called the company) upon applications approved by the Minister of Transport made by the company to the Minister of Finance, to be applied by the company in payment of the deficits-

There is no reference to an amount beside it.

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LIB
PC
CCF

William Arnold Peters (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Peters:

Mr. Chairman, in respect to vote No. 418, I should like to ask a question following up a question asked previously by an hon. member. I notice there is an increase from $5,410,000 to $6,585,000 in the deficit. Could the minister explain the reason for that increase? How does this deficit work?

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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

It is red.

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LIB
CCF

William Arnold Peters (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Peters:

Mr. Chairman, I may have put the question badly but I should like to know the reason for the increased deficit.

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LIB
PC

Léon Balcer (Minister of Transport)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Balcer:

Mr. Chairman, I can give a brief explanation regarding the increase of $1,175,000 in the deficit for 1961 as compared with 1960. This year there is an increase in maintenance and dock tracks, as well as buildings amounting to $145,500. The cost in regard to the North Sydney-Port aux Basques service is $117,000 and, in regard to the service from North Sydney to other island ports the cost is $28,500. During this year there will be a decrease in the cost of repairs to buildings and equipment on the North Sydney-Port aux Basques service amounting to $70,000. There will be an increase in repairs to floating equipment on the North Sydney to other island port services in the amount of $7,000. The increase in the cost of the operating services in 1961 will total

Supply-Transport

$1,224,500." The increase in the cost of freight handling and switching will amount to $900,-

000. The increase in wages to crews is $200,000, and the increase in the cost of material and supplies is $35,000. The increase in cost of fuel charges is $50,000; the increase in claims for taxes and various miscellaneous charges is $39,500. There is also an increase in equipment rentals of $18,000, making a total of $1,325,000. That will be reduced by an estimated increase in operating revenues of $150,000. The net increase in operating deficit will be $1,175,000.

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CCF

William Arnold Peters (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Peiers:

Mr. Chairman, the repairs that the minister has referred to have mainly been to docks and other facilities. I should like to know if the ferry, which was referred to a moment ago and the service it provides, is maintained separately from the repair items, or is the whole operation of ferry services and terminal facilities regarded as one main item? I should like to know the relationship between the Canadian National Railways, mentioned as "the company" in this vote, and the facilities which normally would belong to the Department of Transport. Are they maintained separately or combined in one group?

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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

They are separate in combination.

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PC

Léon Balcer (Minister of Transport)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Balcer:

Our cost is kept separately. The C.N.R. submits these accounts for operating costs, etc., to the Department of Transport for whom it acts as agent.

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CCF

William Arnold Peters (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Peiers:

Under this item the minister mentioned terminals at the particular ports. Are they distinguished as Department of Transport terminals? Are they separate from Canadian National facilities? In other words, do the Canadian National Railways use them the same way that other people might use them? Is there a public section in so far as the Department of Transport is concerned with reference to these facilities?

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PC

Léon Balcer (Minister of Transport)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Balcer:

We own all these facilities and the Canadian National operates them. I am told that these installations are for public use. They are used by the C.N.R. which has operated them as our agent.

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CCF

William Arnold Peters (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Peters:

One further question. Is the ferry that is being built for the Department of Transport or is it for the Canadian National Railways?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
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June 8, 1961