May 25, 1961

PC

Edmund Leverett Morris (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Morris:

Under the direction of my minister I am in contact with that division, and let me say there is no turmoil within it.

If the house would permit, perhaps I should state factually what the two forms are in connection with the taking of the population census and, in so doing, again bespeak, as my minister has done, the active support and co-operation of members of parliament, who can give a most significant and meaningful direction to this great national undertaking which has such an important bearing upon the future economic and social life of Canada.

In reply to the question let me indicate that there are two forms involved. One is known as form 2A. It is in padded shape and consists-

Topic:   THE CENSUS
Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON FORMS TO BE USED BY ENUMERATORS
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L L

William Moore Benidickson

Liberal Labour

Mr. Benidickson:

The appointments are also padded.

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PC

Edmund Leverett Morris (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Morris:

-of a series of questions kept in the pad by the enumerator. These questions are normal to all census taking both in Canada and in other countries which undertake census work. These questions have been asked in previous Canadian census taking.

At each fifth household a form known as form 4 will be left with every person 15 years of age and over. Some of the questions asked on form 4 are confidential in nature. These questions elicit information concerning gross earnings and the component sources of income which make up the individual's gross earnings. As I have said, this form will be left with each individual 15 years of age and over in every fifth household. The individual will be asked to complete it in privacy. Having completed it he will be requested to seal it with the gummed stickers provided for the form. The form will then be collected by the enumerator and returned by him directly to the dominion bureau of statistics, where it will receive attention from the dominion statistician. The sealed form will not be opened by the enumerator.

There will be no delay in the conduct of the 1961 census of Canada which will commence on June 1 through the activity of 27,000 enumerators. I bespeak again such support as the hon. gentleman and other hon. members can give to the conduct of this meaningful national undertaking.

Topic:   THE CENSUS
Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON FORMS TO BE USED BY ENUMERATORS
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CCF

Douglas Mason Fisher

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. D. M. Fisher (Port Arthur):

A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Can the parliamentary secretary give us an estimate or indication as to when that part of the census information used for redistribution will be made available?

Topic:   THE CENSUS
Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON FORMS TO BE USED BY ENUMERATORS
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PC

Edmund Leverett Morris (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Morris:

Yes, Mr. Speaker. The returns from the population survey, form 2A, will be transcribed by two electronic computer machines.

Topic:   THE CENSUS
Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON FORMS TO BE USED BY ENUMERATORS
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L L

William Moore Benidickson

Liberal Labour

Mr. Benidickson:

Progressive Conservative machines?

Topic:   THE CENSUS
Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON FORMS TO BE USED BY ENUMERATORS
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PC

Edmund Leverett Morris (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Morris:

After the returns have been fed through the machines we will have the population total, provided the electronic machines do not incur any disabilities such as afflict the opposition-

Topic:   THE CENSUS
Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON FORMS TO BE USED BY ENUMERATORS
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

Order.

Topic:   THE CENSUS
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PC

Edmund Leverett Morris (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Morris:

-and I think we can count on a meaningful answer in about 10 or 12 months.

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LIB

Paul Theodore Hellyer

Liberal

Mr. Hellyer:

I should like to direct another question to the parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Trade and Commerce. Is the parliamentary secretary aware of the fact

that the confidential information to be given in form 4 is readily discernible by merely placing the form in the line of sight in any reasonable light, and therefore can be deciphered by any person who would be willing to look at the form?

Topic:   THE CENSUS
Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON FORMS TO BE USED BY ENUMERATORS
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PC

Edmund Leverett Morris (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Morris:

I and the dominion bureau of statistics do not have the same imputations which the hon. gentleman has about the 27,000 enumerators. I have just courteously sent him the form. The form will be sealed. If he will kindly turn it over he will see three pieces of gum which will seal the form and prevent that situation which he has just mentioned.

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LIB

Paul Theodore Hellyer

Liberal

Mr. Hellyer:

I have a further supplementary question. I am sure the parliamentary secretary was aware of the fact that I was referring to the sealed form. It is still possible readily to discern the information-

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Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON FORMS TO BE USED BY ENUMERATORS
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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

Order. The hon. member has brought the matter to the attention of the parliamentary secretary, and it seems to me that is all that can be accomplished on the orders of the day.

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CCF

William Arnold Peters (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Arnold Peters (Timiskaming):

I wish to ask a supplementary question of the parliamentary secretary to the Minister of Trade and Commerce. Because of the development of this second sealed questionnaire, has consideration been given to allowing the people themselves to fill in the regular census forms and have those sealed forms delivered to the enumerators also?

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PC

Edmund Leverett Morris (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Morris:

Mr. Speaker, we are carrying on in the 1961 census the standard census procedure.

Topic:   THE CENSUS
Subtopic:   STATEMENT ON FORMS TO BE USED BY ENUMERATORS
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LIB

George James McIlraith

Liberal

Mr. Mcllrailh:

Not in hiring staff.

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PC

Edmund Leverett Morris (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Morris:

The hon. member for Ottawa West has made some interjection with, I presume, his typical lucidity. He would know all about this matter, because he ostensibly handled the last census.

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LIB

Paul Theodore Hellyer

Liberal

Mr. Hellyer:

And it was very efficiently handled.

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PC

Edmund Leverett Morris (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Morris:

The general census form does not contain any information which, in the view of demographic scientists, would require it to be prepared in an attitude or atmosphere of confidence over and above the oath of secrecy taken by the enumerator and for which protection is provided in law. Those details which are regarded as individually intimate are in form 4, which is taken from every individual 15 years of age and over in the fifth household ending with the numeral 3 or 8 in the enumerator's chronological order.

Inquiries of the Ministry

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LIB

Paul Theodore Hellyer

Liberal

Mr. Hellyer:

But it can be read just as easily as if it were open.

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May 25, 1961