May 24, 1961

PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

The hon. member is really continuing a debate on the charges and countercharges. Is the house ready for the question?

Topic:   VETERANS AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   FOURTH AND FIFTH REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEE-CONCURRENCE IN FOURTH REPORT
Permalink
LIB

George James McIlraith

Liberal

Mr. G. J. Mcllrailh (Ottawa West):

Mr. Speaker, the motion for concurrence in the committee report made by the chairman of the committee is one that I have no desire at all to oppose. I think the chairman is caught in the position where he is desirous of moving the business of the committee forward, and he finds himself in a predicament. In order to carry on the work he has to come to the house and ask for a reduction in the quorum. With his action in doing that I have no quarrel whatever, because of the circumstances in which he finds himself; but the necessity of taking that action does reveal a bad condition in the management of the business of the house.

When the Prime Minister of this country, who is looked to in this house as the leader of the house, rose to deal with this subject he saw fit to start off his remarks in a way that examination will reveal was most offensive, unfair and inaccurate. When I interjected, as it was contrary to the rules I was taken to task for that interjection. When I was being taken to task for interjecting the Prime Minister seemed to approve the interjections of his Minister of Public Works, as is his wont.

I merely want to point out to the Prime Minister that in handling this debate in this way-this is a subject that is debatable- and in introducing this standard of conduct he is going a long way from the subject matter, which is a difficult one, and he conducts himself in a way that other hon. members in the house are likely to follow as the proper one.

Topic:   VETERANS AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   FOURTH AND FIFTH REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEE-CONCURRENCE IN FOURTH REPORT
Permalink
PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

Order. If the hon. member wished to raise the subject matter he is referring to, which is the conduct of the Prime Minister, he should have raised it as a point of order at the time. It is not relevant to the debate.

Veterans Affairs Committee

Topic:   VETERANS AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   FOURTH AND FIFTH REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEE-CONCURRENCE IN FOURTH REPORT
Permalink
LIB

George James McIlraith

Liberal

Mr. Mcllrailh:

Well, then, Mr. Speaker, I do desire to say something about the substance of the argument of the Prime Minister and to answer it because I feel that if the argument was allowable and was permitted to be made it surely is in order to reply to it.

The substance of his argument was his usual line, an indirect attempt to ridicule the small numbers in the opposition. That was the line of argument. Then he went on to say that they should trifurcate themselves in order to make sufficient numbers to attend the committee sittings.

May I remind the Prime Minister that notwithstanding his rather skilful method of handling this, in the way he did, he did not deal with the real point. Yesterday morning at 9.30 the attendance of 42 members of the opposition would have been required in committees, and that is making no allowance for any meetings having to do with legislation in the house that we are going on with at the present time, or in preparing ourselves for legislation. He will recall that on Monday and Tuesday of this week legislation was brought before the house on very short notice. He must not only recall that but he must assume responsibility for it.

I would hope that the Prime Minister would take enough time from trying to make those rather appealing arguments that may or may not be wholly relevant to the point to see whether he could not give some attention to the better organization and presentation of business to the house and to committees in an orderly way that would try to meet this difficulty. I invite the Prime Minister to give some real thought and care to that subject rather than always seeking to use diversionary arguments which, by the way, he does very skilfully.

I am not suggesting it is out of order for him to follow that course if he wishes to do so, but I respectfully suggest that he should devote a little attention to the whole question of the preparation of legislation in proper time so it can be submitted to the house in an orderly way, and also the question of the arrangement of sittings of committees in such a way that we will not have the spectacle we had the other day with respect to legislation concerning the transport department, or the situation we had a few days earlier when the agriculture committee was sitting to deal with quite important matters at the very time an agricultural bill was being debated in the house. I suggest that these matters are worthy of his attention.

In making his remarks today the Prime Minister based his argument on the smallness of the opposition, and I should like to remind him of something he said on that very subject

Starred Questions

on an earlier occasion. He was quoted in the press on August 11, 1953, as having made this statement:

There is nothing much that one can say, excepting that I would have liked to have seen a powerful opposition in the House of Commons. After all, a strong opposition to the government is essential to our democratic way of life. The load that rests on the few that have been elected is almost impossible for the average individual to understand.

I simply suggest to the Prime Minister that in the light of that background we are now free to interpret his remarks today as an appeal to the voters in the four constituencies in which by-elections are being held.

Topic:   VETERANS AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   FOURTH AND FIFTH REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEE-CONCURRENCE IN FOURTH REPORT
Permalink
PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

Is the house ready for the question?

Topic:   VETERANS AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   FOURTH AND FIFTH REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEE-CONCURRENCE IN FOURTH REPORT
Permalink
CCF

William Arnold Peters (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Arnold Peters (Timiskaming):

Mr. Speaker, I should like to say something before the question is put. If I had been at the second last meeting of the veterans affairs committee I would have opposed this change. The committee has a membership of 60, and obviously there should be enough people available to constitute a quorum.

Over the past three years the Prime Minister has suggested that the committees should be made more effective in the discharge of their functions. Obviously the veterans affairs committee cannot be effective if only 10 out of 60 members are present. I suggest that one thing we should possibly do is what the Prime Minister tried to do a year or two ago, when he installed a speaker system in his office in order to follow the debates in the house. I am not suggesting that that be done in our offices, but rather that simultaneous translation and amplification systems be installed in each of the committee rooms so that members will be able to follow the debates in the committees.

Topic:   VETERANS AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   FOURTH AND FIFTH REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEE-CONCURRENCE IN FOURTH REPORT
Permalink
PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

Order. The hon. member's suggestion is quite ingenious but also quite irrelevant. Is the house ready for the question?

Topic:   VETERANS AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   FOURTH AND FIFTH REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEE-CONCURRENCE IN FOURTH REPORT
Permalink
PC

Gage Workman Montgomery

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Montgomery:

May I say one word?

Topic:   VETERANS AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   FOURTH AND FIFTH REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEE-CONCURRENCE IN FOURTH REPORT
Permalink
PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

Order. The hon. member has already spoken.

Topic:   VETERANS AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   FOURTH AND FIFTH REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEE-CONCURRENCE IN FOURTH REPORT
Permalink
PC

Gage Workman Montgomery

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Montgomery:

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has just stated that the veterans affairs committee is a 60-man committee. I should like to inform him and the house that it is only a 40-man committee.

Topic:   VETERANS AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   FOURTH AND FIFTH REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEE-CONCURRENCE IN FOURTH REPORT
Permalink

Motion agreed to.


STARRED QUESTIONS

PRINTING BUREAU

OUTSIDE WORK

LIB

Mr. McMillan

Liberal

1. What was the total cost of printing done outside the printing bureau for all departments of government for the last fiscal year?

2. Were tenders called on any or all of this work?

3. What firms or persons received the three highest printing awards, and what were the amounts of such awards?

Topic:   PRINTING BUREAU
Subtopic:   OUTSIDE WORK
Permalink
PC

Léon Balcer (Minister of Transport)

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Leon Balcer (Minister of Transport):

The answer to part 1 of this question is $5,640,658.

The answer to part 2 is yes. Tenders were called on this work in accordance with the Public Printing and Stationery Act and the government contract regulations.

The answer to part 3 is Canadian Bank Note Limited, Ottawa, the award being in the amount of $96,153.75; Ashton-Potter Limited, Toronto, the award being in the amount of $71,653; and R. L. Crain Limited, Ottawa, the award being in the amount of $57,723.70.

Topic:   PRINTING BUREAU
Subtopic:   OUTSIDE WORK
Permalink

SATELLITE STATION, MONT LAURIER U.S.- CANADA NEGOTIATIONS

LIB

Mr. Clermont

Liberal

1. Have the negotiations with the United States concerning an international agreement on the establishment of a satellite station at Mont Laurier, province of Quebec, been concluded?

2. If so: (a) what has resulted from such negotiations? (b) at what date will the works begin, and how long will they last?

3. If not, what is the reason for the delay in the said negotiations with the United States, in view of the fact that the board of broadcast governors has recommended the granting of a licence on December 8, 1960?

Topic:   SATELLITE STATION, MONT LAURIER U.S.- CANADA NEGOTIATIONS
Permalink
PC

Marcel Joseph Aimé Lambert (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. M. J. A. Lambert (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue):

I am informed by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation as follows:

1. Yes.

2. (a) Channel 3 has been assigned to Mont Laurier for the proposed station.

(b) This transmitter is to be an off-air rebroadcasting station of the proposed station at Mont Tremblant on channel 11, and construction of both stations will be concurrent. Work on the project is expected to start soon. The corporation is awaiting the final resolution of the leasing arrangements for the transmitter site of the master station at Mont Tremblant, which is to be located on property administered by the Quebec provincial government. The corporation expects that these stations will be in operation this autumn.

Topic:   SATELLITE STATION, MONT LAURIER U.S.- CANADA NEGOTIATIONS
Permalink

COST OF BORDEN COMMISSION

May 24, 1961