December 8, 1960

SEMI-MONTHLY INDEX OF DEBATES IN FRENCH

PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

In case some hon. members have not seen it, may I bring to the attention of the house a new publication supplementing our parliamentary reports which appears today for the first time. It is the semi-monthly index of the debates in the French language and it is now available to hon. members. Both the English and French editions of the index are now available to the public by subscription.

Topic:   SEMI-MONTHLY INDEX OF DEBATES IN FRENCH
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THE LATE HAYDEN STANTON

TRIBUTES ON PASSING OF MEMBER FOR LEEDS

PC

John George Diefenbaker (Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, it is always a matter of sadness to hon. members when one of their fellow members passes away. In the passing of Hayden Stanton, the late member for Leeds, the house has sustained a heavy loss. Through the years he won the confidence of the people of his area and constituency and occupied positions of public importance and service throughout his life. He became a member of parliament seven years ago, and latterly had been chairman of the standing committee on agriculture.

Hayden Stanton was one of those whom to know was to love. Unobtrusive in demeanour, generous in his sympathies, of high integrity and sound in judgment, he had made a place for himself in the hearts of his fellow members. As a farmer he naturally took a particular interest in agricultural pursuits. His own farm would be an example of an outstanding dairy farm, his specialty being Jersey cattle.

He was a devoted public servant. He had the respect and affection of the house. To his widow and son and daughter, to his grandchildren, I am sure I carry with me the unanimity of the house in extending sympathy at the passing of one who in his day and generation gave of his best to his area, to his county, to his province and to his country.

Topic:   THE LATE HAYDEN STANTON
Subtopic:   TRIBUTES ON PASSING OF MEMBER FOR LEEDS
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Hon. Lionel Chevrier (Laurier):

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the official opposition I should like to associate myself with the Prime Minister in the words of mourning

which he has expressed concerning the death of another of our members. The hon. member for Leeds had been in this house for a period of seven years. He had been actively and continually interested in matters affecting eastern Ontario and generally, as the Prime Minister has already stated, in matters affecting the country as a whole. Like many of us, he had taken an active interest in municipal politics. He was interested in the board of education in the constituency from which he came and he was devoted, in a special manner, to that industry of eastern Ontario concerned with cheese production.

He was quiet and unassuming, and while he did not take part in the deliberations of this house too often when he did join in them he showed without doubt that he was possessed of a deep knowledge of the matters which interested eastern Ontario in a special manner. I have reference now particularly to power development for industrial purposes, the St. Lawrence seaway and matters affecting the cheese producing industry. He had a fine record of public service.

I should like to extend to his widow, to his son Ralph, to his daughter Mrs. Lattimer and to the members of the family the deep condolences of those of us who sit on this side of the house.

Topic:   THE LATE HAYDEN STANTON
Subtopic:   TRIBUTES ON PASSING OF MEMBER FOR LEEDS
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CCF

Hazen Robert Argue

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Hazen Argue (Assiniboia):

Mr. Speaker, we join with the Prime Minister and the hon. member for Laurier in their expressions of sympathy and condolences to Mrs. Stanton and to the Stanton family. We were indeed sorrowed to learn of the passing of a fellow member, Mr. Hayden Stanton. In his years in the house I came to know him well. I always found him co-operative, kindly and prepared to meet all members on a fair and equal basis.

Mr. Stanton held almost all the local offices within the gift of his neighbours and the people in his own municipality and district. He served in the House of Commons since 1953, and in recent times was chairman of the committee on agriculture. Mr. Stanton was extremely active in community and service organizations. Always in parliament he was a champion of the cause of agriculture, the industry in which he took such a well known and active part. We extend with others to Mrs. Stanton and to the family our deepest sympathy at this time.

Columbia River Development Financing

Topic:   THE LATE HAYDEN STANTON
Subtopic:   TRIBUTES ON PASSING OF MEMBER FOR LEEDS
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PC

Gage Workman Montgomery

Progressive Conservative

Mr. G. W. Montgomery (Victoria-Carleton):

Mr. Speaker, I should like to add just a word or two to what has been said by the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition. The late Hayden Stanton was my seatmate for the last three years. We had' been very closely associated ever since he came to parliament. We had a great many things in common in our preparation, you might say, for the work here in parliament. He was a man to whom you could always go for good, sound advice.

One thing I should like to add is this, and it is something that no one else has said. In all the seven years during which I have been closely associated with him, I never heard Hayden Stanton say anything but good about anyone. I think that is possibly one of the greatest compliments that can be paid to anyone.

Topic:   THE LATE HAYDEN STANTON
Subtopic:   TRIBUTES ON PASSING OF MEMBER FOR LEEDS
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COLUMBIA RIVER

FEDERAL PROPOSALS

PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Hon. Donald M. Fleming (Minister of Finance):

In view of inquiries that have been made in the house from time to time, Mr. Speaker, I think hon. members might perhaps be interested in the text of a letter which I wrote on December 6 to Premier Bennett of British Columbia and which contained the proposals of the federal government respecting the financing of the Columbia river development. The letter is not short, but if it is the wish of the house I would be prepared to read it.

Topic:   COLUMBIA RIVER
Subtopic:   FEDERAL PROPOSALS
Sub-subtopic:   RESPECTING FINANCING
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?

An hon. Member:

Go ahead.

Topic:   COLUMBIA RIVER
Subtopic:   FEDERAL PROPOSALS
Sub-subtopic:   RESPECTING FINANCING
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinton):

The letter reads as follows:

My dear Premier:

I duly received your letter dated October 27 concerning the financing of the Columbia river power development. Your writing of the letter followed our personal discussion of the same subject on October 26.

You will undoubtedly have been advised by now that at the meeting of the Canada-British Columbia policy liaison committee on November 23 and 24, the federal ministers amplified the nature and effect of the federal government's offer as first put forward on February 9, 1960, and confirmed in my letter of April 21. Since the questions in your letter under reply were based on the situation previous to the elaboration made at that meeting, I believe it would be appropriate if I were to repeat the outline of the federal offer here, in order that my answers to your questions may appear in their proper context. Subject to satisfactory agreement on the character and functions of a joint federal-provincial co-ordinating agency, along the lines indicated by federal representatives at the recent Canada-British Columbia policy liaison committee, the federal government would give financial assistance in the following manner:

1. The government of Canada is prepared, subject to the approval of parliament, to advance one half

of the capital cost of creating the storages necessary to implement the proposed treaty between Canada and the United States for the co-operative development of the Columbia river.

2. The government of Canada will advance these moneys as an investment in a joint project of Canada and British Columbia which will be self-liquidating.

3. The government of Canada proposes the creation of a joint entity for the purpose (amongst others) of receiving and advancing the federal government's financial contribution. It is understood that you propose to designate the British Columbia Power Commission as the agency to have physical responsibility on behalf of British Columbia for construction and operation of these projects. Subject to satisfactory agreement between our two governments as to the role and position of the joint entity in safeguarding the obligations of the federal government under the treaty and the interests of the federal government (including such matters as the giving of necessary clearances called for by the treaty, adherence to completion dates as may be agreed in the treaty, Canadian content and employment in construction, etc., and such other matters as are appropriate to be entrusted to the entity), and subject to the approval and authorization of parliament, the joint entity could be authorized to advance the federal moneys for capital costs, to British Columbia Power Commission in accordance with the schedule of construction as contracts are approved.

4. The financing thus provided by the federal government (or guaranteed, if a guarantee arrangement is agreed to be more suitable) would be looked upon as a joint investment with British Columbia, and be repayable by the operating entity to the joint entity on behalf of the federal government, out of revenues earned from the project after operating costs are met. Since it would be a joint investment, capital repayment out of revenues to the federal government would be in the same proportion to total earnings as the capital contribution by the federal government bears to the total capital contributed to bring the project into operation and would be subject to the same maturity dates and other repayment conditions as were applicable to the capital contributed by the provincial government, or by private investors.

5. Under this arrangement, it would also be possible for the joint entity to receive and disburse the proportion of the capital to be contributed by British Columbia, if the province wishes to handle it that way. Alternative^, it would be possible for the entity to raise the finances directly from the public, with each government agreeing to guarantee the issue proportionately and to purchase proportionately any part thereof from time to time not taken up by public subscription.

Subject to the foregoing, I would answer your request for information on five precise points as follows:

(1) and (5). You now inquire as to "the maximum amount which the federal government would be prepared to lend to the B.C. power commission". In our oral discussion on October 26, your question was put in rather different form. You then asked if there would be any strings attached to any loan that the federal government might make and, if the loan were to the B.C. power commission, whether the federal government would wish to have a guarantee by the government of the province and, if so, whether on principal, interest or both. As indicated above and as stated in my letter of April 21, I wish to confirm that the government of Canada is prepared, subject to the approval of parliament, to provide one half of the capital cost of the approved storage required to implement the proposed treaty between Canada

and the United States for the co-operative developments of the Columbia river, as an investment in a joint project of Canada and British Columbia that would be self-liquidating.

(2) The financing provided or guaranteed by the government of Canada would be recoverable with interest from the revenues earned from the project.

(3) The precise interest rate to be fixed would depend on the form of financing agreed to, but it would obviously have to bear a direct relation to the rate at which the entity could borrow in the market. With guarantees as suggested above, and in view of the advantageous nature of the project which has been arranged, it should be possible to secure a favourable interest rate. The point to be emphasized is that, on the basis of this concept of a joint investment, there would be no question of an interest charge to the British Columbia government for any investment by the government of Canada. Interest will be paid at the same dates as interest is paid on the capital provided by the provincial government, or to private investors on the bonds guaranteed by the provincial government.

(4) Until its investment has been recovered by it, the federal government would be entitled to receive a share of the net revenue earned from the project in proportion to its contribution to the total capital contributed by the two governments.

You will appreciate that, apart from answering your specific questions in the context of the elaboration of the federal offer referred to, I have confined myself to a very general outline of the nature of the offer and of the ways in which it could be implemented. We are ready and shall be pleased to discuss the details of these and all other questions pertaining to the financing of the Columbia river project, in which the government of Canada has such an important interest, and express the hope that you may see fit to authorize your government's representatives to discuss these questions at the meeting on December 8 and 9.

Yours sincerely,

Donald M. Fleming.

That completes the letter to the premier of British Columbia. I believe the house is aware that a meeting between the two governments is taking place at the present time in Victoria. At that meeting the federal government is represented by my colleagues the Minister of Justice (Mr. Fulton) and the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Hamilton).

Topic:   COLUMBIA RIVER
Subtopic:   FEDERAL PROPOSALS
Sub-subtopic:   RESPECTING FINANCING
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CCF

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. H. W. Herridge (Kootenay West):

Mr. Speaker, may I ask the minister a question. Is this the first occasion on which this offer has been made public?

Topic:   COLUMBIA RIVER
Subtopic:   FEDERAL PROPOSALS
Sub-subtopic:   RESPECTING FINANCING
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming (Eglinton):

This is the first time that the letter I have just read, containing this advance on previous discussions in relation to the financial basis on which the project might be undertaken with the joint participation of the federal and provincial governments, has been made public by the federal government.

90205-6-39J

Inquiries of the Ministry PRIVILEGE

Topic:   COLUMBIA RIVER
Subtopic:   FEDERAL PROPOSALS
Sub-subtopic:   RESPECTING FINANCING
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MR. DIEFENBAKER REFERENCE TO ARTICLE IN "GLOBE AND MAIL"

PC

John George Diefenbaker (Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Right Hon. J. G. Diefenbaker (Prime Minister):

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a question of privilege. I am told that most people, and I belong to that group, often take the substance of an article when they read the headline. This headline reads "Inflow of U.S. Capital Must be Cut, P.M. Says". Then the article reads:

The heavy inflow of U.S. capital investment into Canada must be cut back to reduce the drain of interest and dividend payments across the border, Prime Minister John Diefenbaker suggested tonight.

Then the article goes on to quote what I said. The quotation is entirely correct:

"Canada must expand its exports to the United States, reduce the demand on national earnings from non-resident investment and resolve the conflict between non-resident corporate interests and the national interest."

I emphasize these words in the statement as quoted:

"We must reduce the demand on national earnings."

I went on to point out that it was most desirable that Canadians, to a greater degree than ever before, should invest in the future of their country. I made no statement at any time in the course of my remarks which would in any way have supported the heading or the first paragraph of the article, and on this occasion I have a transcript of what I said.

Topic:   MR. DIEFENBAKER REFERENCE TO ARTICLE IN "GLOBE AND MAIL"
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CCF

Erhart Regier

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Regier:

I wonder if I might ask the Prime Minister to identify the document to which he has referred.

Topic:   MR. DIEFENBAKER REFERENCE TO ARTICLE IN "GLOBE AND MAIL"
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PC

John George Diefenbaker (Prime Minister)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Diefenbaker:

I thought I had mentioned that. If I did not, it is the Globe and Mail of today's date.

Topic:   MR. DIEFENBAKER REFERENCE TO ARTICLE IN "GLOBE AND MAIL"
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FINANCE

December 8, 1960