January 31, 1958

PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

May I ask if the hon. gentleman would wait until we come to the welfare and construction item, and I shall be able to answer these specific questions on that item.

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LIB

Charles Benjamin Howard

Liberal

Mr. Howard:

I think this question should be dealt with under the administration item. I would have asked it earlier, but another hon. member got the floor. I should like to inquire about a matter relating to the visits by the director or deputy minister to the various agencies. Prior to these visits being made, are the bands or the chief counsellors advised of the date of the visit as well as the Indian superintendent?

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?

James Ross Fulton

Mr. Fullon:

Yes, and I am informed that the bands elect their own representatives to attend the meetings.

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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

I wonder whether the

minister would tell us the results of his investigation concerning oil wells being built on Indian reserves?

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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

I am sorry I neglected to

answer that question earlier. We have recently revised the oil and gas regulations applicable to Indian reserves. I am able to advise the hon. gentleman that on the Blood reserve, as on every other reserve where oil or gas wells are discovered, the Indians derive the benefit of every cent which is paid for permits, leases or royalties for oil or gas production. They are also in possession of information concerning the amount of revenue derived because we send them monthly statements of the revenue received.

The process is that when an application is made for exploration and development of oil or gas on an Indian reserve, the Indians are asked to surrender the land. They approve the terms of surrender for permit, lease and royalty in accordance with the regulations. The oil and gas regulations, which we have recently revised, are based on the pattern of provincial regulations in order that we may have, so far as possible, a standard pattern throughout the country. We believe that under these regulations we get, on behalf of the Indians, the maximum revenues available.

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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

Are the sums which are due the Indians sent out to the Indian bands or the band council so that they have ready access to them, or are they kept in Ottawa?

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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

The money is paid into the band fund in Ottawa. Statements are sent monthly of the moneys received and the distribution of the revenue is made in accordance with the general provisions for the distribution of band funds.

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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

What was the finding of the minister in respect of the cost of hospitalization of the Blood Indians in case they were unable to raise the money themselves?

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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

I have to apologize to the hon. member because I was not able to get in touch with my colleague, the Minister of National Health and Welfare, during the recess. If the hon. member would pursue that matter with my colleague, I am quite certain he will be given a satisfactory answer.

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SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. Hansell:

I am sure we thank the minister for the way he has answered these questions. However, I believe he has missed a small question I asked him just before noon concerning the rights of Indians to hunt, either on their reserve or outside of their reserve, and whether they can hunt out of season? What is being done in respect of the complaints I have made to him that animals, after being shot, were left to suffer?

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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

I am informed that Indians, at least in the province from which my hon. friend comes, cannot hunt off a reserve, except on unoccupied crown lands, at any time except for food for their own personal use. With regard to the question of what to do about their wounding of animals and leaving them, as my hon. friend appreciates this is a difficult problem. However, I understand that the Indians would be subject to whatever might be the local laws in that regard to the same extent as the white citizens might be.

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IND

Henri Courtemanche (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Independent Progressive Conservative

The Chairman:

Shall vote 72 carry?

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LIB

John Hornby Harrison

Liberal

Mr. Harrison:

Before the item carries I

should like to commend the minister for his warm support for residential schools for

Indians. I think he indicated that this type of school has a permanent place in Indian affairs for the future. Certainly it is the only way in which to educate Indian children in the furthermost northern parts of our country. These people move around in the pursuit of food and in harvesting their crop of furs. There is no possible way of educating children on safaris of this kind.

I do not think he indicated to me whether additional facilities were going to be provided in this respect at Beauval.

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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

I am advised that it was not possible to reach a decision this year to make additional funds available for that school but that the matter is marked for consideration in the fiscal year 1958-59.

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Item agreed to. Indian agencies- 73. Operation and maintenance, $2,890,767.


LIB

Charles Benjamin Howard

Liberal

Mr. Howard:

Before we go too far into this I should like to say a few words. I expect this would be the place to raise the matter. I would preface my remarks by saying that on January 5, 1948, the Kitimat band presented a petition, as I expect it would be called, to the then joint parliamentary committee on the Indian Act and Indian affairs. In this petition the Kitimat band requested that their band be placed under the jurisdiction of the Prince Rupert agency instead of, as it was then and still is, under the jurisdiction of the Bella Coola agency. The reason for the request is that, especially now that there is road and railroad transportation between Kitimat and Terrace, a distance of 40 miles and again to Prince Rupert, a distance of 100 miles, there is as ready access between Prince Rupert and where the Terrace and Kitimat bands are now as there is between those points and where the Bella Coola agency is.

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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

Did the hon. gentleman say that a petition was sent in, in January of this year?

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LIB

Charles Benjamin Howard

Liberal

Mr. Howard:

No. I am sorry but probably I was not too clear on that point. This was on January 5, 1948. That was the date when it was presented to the Senate and House of Commons committee which travelled through the country in 1946, 1947 and 1948, dealing with Indian affairs generally. I doubt whether anything has been done with it since then. I do not know whether that committee reported or made any recommendations on the matter.

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?

James Ross Fulton

Mr. Fulion:

I am just guessing here, but I imagine it was felt that it was not physically possible to be dealt with in 1948, when it was presented. It is quite possible it might even have been lost sight of. I am grateful to the

Supply-Citizenship and Immigration hon. gentleman for bringing the matter to our attention. Now that there is rail and road communication, as he points out, it will certainly be proper to have another look at the matter. We shall see whether we can resurrect it.

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LIB

Charles Benjamin Howard

Liberal

Mr. Howard:

I might say that I discussed this matter in a general way with two or three members of the band council the last time I was there, and they had no knowledge of it because they were new councillors. However, they said, "Sure, it is a good idea".

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January 31, 1958