January 4, 1958

CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):

Some people might need a pension where they go.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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CCF

William Scottie Bryce

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Bryce:

I should like to ask the

minister a question. It has been drawn to my attention now that under special circumstances you can get a pension. Some time ago I had a constituent of mine whose husband was killed in France while a member of the air force. He left a widow and two very small children. She could not get a pension. Would it be proper for me to bring this before the minister?

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PC

George Randolph Pearkes (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pearkes:

If the hon. member will bring the case to my attention I will have it thoroughly reviewed, and if it comes within the terms-

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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CCF

William Scottie Bryce

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Bryce:

I might say, in fairness to the minister, that I have been working on it from different angles without any success whatever. I will certainly give him the particulars of the case, because it is deplorable that Canada neglects a young widow in that way. This man was killed while he was

serving with the air force, but she could not get a pension because he went on leave at six o'clock at night and was killed at eight.

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PC

George Randolph Pearkes (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pearkes:

I will be pleased to look into that. Considering the efforts I am sure the hon. member has made in the past it would appear to be a somewhat difficult case but I will do the best I can.

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Item agreed to. 244. To authorize in respect of members of the Royal Canadian Air Force on leave without pay and serving as instructors with civilian training organizations operating under the British Commonwealth air training plan who were killed, payment to their dependents of amounts equal to the amounts such dependents would have received under the Pension Act, as amended, had such service as instructors been military service in the armed forces of Canada, less the value of any benefits received by such dependents under insurance contracts which were effected on the lives of such members of the Royal Canadian Air Force by or at the expense of the civilian organizations, $3,840.


SC

Victor Quelch

Social Credit

Mr. Quelch:

I should like to ask the minister what happens in the event of these men becoming injured instead of getting killed while flying? Are they covered under the Pension Act?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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PC

George Randolph Pearkes (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pearkes:

I do not know offhand

whether they receive a pension if they are injured. I shall have to look that up.

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SC

Victor Quelch

Social Credit

Mr. Ouelch:

Since you are looking after the wives it seems to me there should be some provision to guarantee that if pilots are injured while flying they should be pensionable. They are performing a very necessary service.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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PC

George Randolph Pearkes (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pearkes:

So far as I can see, these pensions are given to the dependants of men who lost their lives. There is no indication that under this vote they receive anything for disability, but I should think that if they receive disabilities they would be given a pension by the Department of Veterans Affairs. However, I shall look into it further and let the hon. member know.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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Item agreed to. 245- Government contributions to the permanent services pension account, $47,281,909.


LIB

William James Henderson

Liberal

Mr. Henderson:

I notice that for 1957-58 the amount is $47,281,909. I should like to ask how much this has increased as a result of the increases in pay to service personnel this year? How much has the government's contribution to this item increased?

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PC

George Randolph Pearkes (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pearkes:

We have not got that information here. This is a pension fund which is contributory for personnel who are retiring, and it is the government's contribution to that?

Supply-National Defence

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LIB

William James Henderson

Liberal

Mr. Henderson:

It is the government's contribution to the permanent pension account about which I was asking.

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LIB

George Carlyle Marler

Liberal

Mr. Marler:

Is the minister not going to supply some information with regard to this question? It seems to me it is quite clear that this item of $47,281,909 was established at the time these estimates were prepared away back near the end of 1956. Of course, we know there have been increases in pay and allowances. Surely, that must be reflected by an increase in the government contribution to this permanent services pension account. I supposed, Mr. Chairman, that we would find something in the further supplementary estimates for this, but in looking through them I find no provision whatever.

I should like to ask the minister in what way is provision going to be made for this increased contribution which I take it the government will make in respect of the officers and men who are receiving higher pay and allowances as a result of the government decision taken late in June or early July of 1957?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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PC

George Randolph Pearkes (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pearkes:

I am told there will be about a 5 per cent increase in that amount.

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LIB

George Carlyle Marler

Liberal

Mr. Marler:

So, Mr. Chairman, in round figures that would mean something a little under $2.5 million. The question I had really put to the minister was, when is provision being made for this $2.5 million?

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PC

George Randolph Pearkes (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pearkes:

I am not sure how it will be covered. We might have to bring in a supplementary estimate to cover that amount, or it might be possible to absorb it.

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LIB

George Carlyle Marler

Liberal

Mr. Marler:

Quite frankly, I do not want to quarrel with the minister, but in view of the fact there is going to be an increase of nearly $2.5 million I find it difficult to see how that can be absorbed. I can see that it might be possible to absorb that within the total budget, but I cannot see that there is sufficient flexibility for funds available in some other part of the defence vote to be transferred to this vote No. 245.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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PC

George Randolph Pearkes (Minister of National Defence)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pearkes:

If it is found necessary we will have to bring in a supplementary estimate before the end of the year to cover that increase in pensions.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE
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January 4, 1958