November 11, 1957

SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. Hansell:

Well, not this time. I do not think very fast. It requires a great deal of time for me to write even a small jingle like the one I read. I do not have the brains that some people have. I have to think for a long time before I can compose poetry.

This is the subamendment proposed to this house by my leader the other day:

However, we regret that there is nothing in the speech from the throne to indicate that it is the government's intention to ask parliament to lay down a scientific, modern financial policy for Canada that will guide the Bank of Canada in its operations, bring about a speedy end to the present tight-money policy, and effectively check the ever-rising cost of living.

That amendment, Mr. Speaker, was devised by reason of the fact that unless there is a change in basic financial policy, the problems that confront Canada today will never, never be solved. But when this amendment was moved and the leader of the Social Credit party made his speech, which was the basis of the amendment, of course, he had to criticize the policy laid down by the Bank of Canada. In criticizing the policy laid down by the Bank of Canada he mentioned the name of the governor of the Bank of Canada. Well, well, what happened? We find that the Financial Post, one of Canada's leading orthodox financial papers, began to take my leader to task. It was not very ably done, either, but it was done in a way that should be far beneath the dignity of one of Canada's leading financial papers. This is what one of the editors said. I do not know what editor

The Address-Mr. Hansell wrote this article; I wish I knew so that I could name him as I am reading this editorial. This is from the Financial Post of October 26:

Mr. Low's contribution to the current Ottawa debate was a lecture on finance. It was an eye-opener to any who fondly believe that experience has cured the Crediters of their delusions.

First, Mr. Low did the cowardly and inexcusable.-

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An hon. Member:

What is wrong with that?

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SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. Hansell:

I continue:

-He launched a violent personal attack on the governor of the Bank of Canada, a civil servant unable to defend himself.

Let me stop there just for a moment. Who said that any official of the Bank of Canada was unable to defend himself? Who said that? That is news to me. If the governor of the Bank of Canada, or any official of the Bank of Canada, wants to explain anything he can do so; for it seems to me that he is in a position even far above government.

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PC

William Howell Arthur Thomas

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Thomas (Middlesex West):

Is he not

responsible to the Minister of Finance?

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SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. Hansell:

To answer my hon. friend's question, perhaps in some sort of legal sense he is, but in practice the Minister of Finance is responsible to him.

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LIB
SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. Hansell:

Now, then, any time the officials of the Bank of Canada want to come 'before the banking and commerce .committee of parliament all they have to do is to make a request and the banking and commerce committee will hear them. What is this nonsense about a civil servant unable to defend himself? I continue with the editorial:

Second, Mr. Low again revealed the Social Credit plan, if it achieved national power, to have that party run the extremely complex and delicate machinery of our monetary system.

There is a strong element of farce in Mr. Low s impudence about the bank governor. Mr. Coyne happens to be an extremely able person, unusually versed in the difficult art and science of central banking.

Well, perhaps he is; but no one is above criticism by this parliament, for we, as members of parliament, represent the people of Canada.

I am not going to take the time to read the whole editorial but farther along we find this:

The Social Crediters-quacks of the economic world-

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Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh.

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SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. Hansell:

Thanks for the applause; we appreciate that. I am going to say this: the world in its present state was not brought

there by anyone in his right mind. I continue with the editorial:

The Social Crediters-quacks of the economic world-claim to have discovered that the monetary system is nothing but a nefarious plot to fleece the public.

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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

Order. I do not like to interrupt the hon. member but there is a rule against reading extracts from newspapers which relate to debates earlier in the session, and I should like to refer the hon. member to that rule which is citation 264 of Beauchesne s Parliamentary Rules and Forms, third edition.

I should like to read a bit of it:

It is out of order to read extracts in a debate if they:-

Then there are a number of subheadings:

(a) refer to other debates during the same session-

(c) contain unparliamentary expressions, as no language can be heard in quotation if it would be disorderly if spoken;

(d) refer to, comment on, or deny anything said by a member;

(e) allude to debates in the other house of parliament.

The extract comments on what an hon. member said earlier in the session and it seems to me it does contravene the rule.

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SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. Hansell:

Well, Mr. Speaker, I suppose the hon. member could have risen on a question of privilege but this, to my mind, is extremely important because it takes the leader of the Social Credit party to task for what he said.

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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

I do not want the hon. member to understand me to say he cannot refer to it, but to read these extracts from the paper is contrary to practice.

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SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. Hansell:

Mr. Speaker, I will bow to your ruling because I think I have covered that part of the editorial which refers to the Social Credit party. I had not thought of the rule before. If I had I would not have read the article. However, there is another part of the article which does not refer to my leader, or what he said, and it is quite striking in contrast. It says:

This was seriously the belief of William Aber-hart, the Alberta buffoon, who arrived in politics via evangelism of the kind that goes in for predicting the end of the world. If the banks could pull unlimited "money" out of a hat, argued Bible Bill, so could the government; and he offered to pay everybody $25 a month, for nothing, forever. What's more, he assured the citizens no taxation of any kind would be needed to finance the handout.

Such were the preposterous economics of William Aberhart, a man of unfathomable ignorance on all economic questions.

The reason I read that, Mr. Speaker, is simply this. You see the illogic of the editorial writer here. He scores the leader

of the Social Credit group because he criticized the governor of the Bank of Canada, and he did not criticize him at all. He simply criticized the Governor's policy; but then, the editorial writer criticizes the leader of the Social Credit group for criticizing a man who the editor says could not speak in his own defence. And yet, what does the editor do but criticize a man who is long since dead, who cannot possibly come back from the dead to defend himself? Yet, he calls him a buffoon who arrived in politics via evangelism, of the kind that goes in for predicting the end of the world.

Some of us are mighty glad that a man like the late William Aberhart existed and put forth to the people of this country an appraisal of the present economic system that bleeds people almost to economic death through burdensome debt and taxation when at the same time our vast abundance of production is going to waste. Some of us are mighty glad that such a man existed, a man who, believe me, Mr. Speaker, has started a movement in Canada that will never die. Let the editor of the Financial Post know that. Let him know that he cannot kill this movement by that sort of wetting of pens and knocking out editorials on a typewriter. No sir, it will take more than that. Some of us are going to battle this thing through if we have to do it with our last breath.

Now, Mr. Speaker, may I say this. Long before the leader of the Social Credit party criticized the policy of the Bank of Canada, Hugh John Flemming, the premier of New Brunswick, did so. Let me emphasize that I am talking about the premier of New Brunswick. We do not want to get these men confused. I am talking about Hugh John Flemming, not Donald Methuen Fleming. Remember that. What did the premier of New Brunswick say in a speech delivered before the Atlantic provinces economic council long before the Social Credit leader made his speech in the house? Let me read from the Fundy Fisherman of October 9. For the sake of brevity I will break into the middle of the article but I am not altering the context. First, the article had this to say:

The colossal failure of the program-

The reference is to the program of the Bank of Canada.

-was illustrated on every hand-

They meant in Mr. Flemming's speech.

-and while the program was introduced inflation as defined by the Bank of Canada was non-existent, it has since become apparent that it is being created. After gathering force slowly over a period of months, the slump brought about by the Bank of Canada's policy was gaining in impact and was striking with particular force at the Atlantic provinces.

The Address-Mr. Hansell

That is from the news item in the Fundy Fisherman. Now, what did Hugh John Flemming say when he spoke to the Atlantic provinces economic council? Of course, I cannot read his whole speech. That would not be permitted and I recognize it is against the rules to read too much, but here are certain portions of his speech:

The purpose of this policy, as stated, has been to check the pressure of a strong over-all demand on a scarce supply of resources. But, I submit, where is the scarcity? According to the dominion bureau of statistics, retail trade in the Atlantic provinces in the first six months of this year failed to attain the level achieved in 1956.

In the country as a whole the tight money policy has not been successful in checking the rise in prices. In September, 1956, the consumer price index stood at 119. Today is stands at 122.6. The odd thing about the present situation is that prices go on rising and yet there are very few commodities in short supply. Indeed, over recent months, business inventories have been accumulating at quite a rapid rate. The only thing which appears to be in really short supply is money, particularly east of Montreal.

In the United States the rather odd monetary and economic situation we appear to be in has resulted in the United States senate finance committee holding hearings on the financial condition of the United States. These hearings began on June 18 and continued in high gear during July and August. The whole banking and financial structure of the United States is being subjected to a most careful and searching scrutiny.

The premier of New Brunswick continued:

I think that something similar should be under way in Canada. After all, our monetary system has not been given a really careful examination since the royal commission on banking and currency was appointed in 1933, almost a quarter of a century ago.

Hugh John Flemming said almost the same thing as the leader of the Social Credit party said in this house some days ago. But did the Financial Post criticize him? Oh no, they did not.

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An hon. Member:

He was a Conservative.

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SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. Hansell:

Yes, he was a Conservative and perhaps will turn out to be a good one. Do not think I have any idea that there are no good Conservatives in the ranks. There are some good ones. I have known them for a long time. I have known the Prime Minister, he is a fine man. The Minister of Finance is a fine gentleman, and you who have recently come here are mighty fine boys; yes sir, mighty fine boys. But after you have been here as long as some of us you will find how impotent you are.

You talk about the supremacy of parliament. What a laugh! All you can do in parliament is holler your head off like I am doing now. Whether or not anybody takes any notice of it, I do not know. You talk about the supremacy of parliament. That is really a joke. You talk about the supremacy of the government. That is another joke because

The Address-Mr. Hansell there is a government stronger than the government that governs the government. Yes, sir. I am telling you that unless they change their financial policies they will never solve the problems of this country.

Through the policy announced by the Bank of Canada not very long ago tight money has caused inflation. It has been accentuated. Instead of safeguarding the stability of the economy of the country they are running the country into the red, into the ground, and the people of the country are thereby suffering. The evidence is that of a disastrous failure. The cost of living continues to rise and that affects each and every individual man, woman and child within the borders of this fair land. Inventories of goods are continually growing, with less money to buy goods. If that is not the result of economic policy, what is it the result of? Let the government say what it is the result of.

Surplus production? Yes sir, wheat is spilling over and is being dumped in the open on the prairies while the world starves. If that is not the result of economic policy, what is it the result of? There is an abundance lying unused all over the ground. Warehouses are beginning to become overstocked while part of the world continues to exist on the lowest possible subsistence level, with some nations on the verge of starvation. Unemployment is growing. In Canada it has now reached approximately 200,000. I read a speech that the Prime Minister made somewhere the other day in which he mentioned the number of people who are employed in Canada. That does not give the picture at all. How many people are unemployed in Canada and why are they unemployed? If it is not because of a faulty economic system, tell me what it is, for every time there is an increase in unemployment there is a decrease in income and the people therefore are that much farther short of the necessary money to buy the vast production of goods from our farms and from our factories.

Municipalities are labouring under crushing financial burdens. That is the picture. Housing construction is gradually petering out. Agriculture which produces the foodstuffs of the nation and which could supply foodstuffs for other starving nations is struggling for its economic existence today. We read today of the terrific drop in the price of hogs and of the stock market falling continually.

What is responsible for that, if it is not economic policy? I challenge the Minister of Finance. I notice he is not in his seat at the moment; I do not know where he is, but it does not matter very much. Perhaps he is

running around trying to find markets or perhaps he is running around trying to convince somebody that he is right. I wish he would convince himself that there is something wrong, tackle that which is wrong and rectify it in an attempt to make Canada what it ought to be.

I say that this economic situation we are witnessing today is the direct and disastrous result of a policy that has been laid down by the Bank of Canada. The Prime Minister is in his seat now. I do not know whether or not he intends to take the opportunity of participating in this debate, but I wish he would say whether or not he opposes this policy that has been laid down by the Bank of Canada or is this government working hand in glove with that policy.

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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member but I must inform him that his time has expired.

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SC

Ernest George Hansell

Social Credit

Mr. Hansell:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Perhaps it is a good time for me to stop anyway. I did want to say something about what the Social Crediters propose to do, but thank you for reminding me, and I will do that some other time. We hope we will have plenty of opportunities.

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PC

Douglas Jung

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Douglas Jung (Vancouver Centre):

Mr. Speaker, it is with mixed feelings of pride and humility that I rise today to address this honourable house. I rise with pride because I have been privileged to participate in two historical events; one of which was the opening of this parliament by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, and the other is that a Canadian of Chinese extraction now sits in this house for the first time. It is, however, with humility that I speak because I am aware of the tremendous responsibilities which rest upon me, not only as the first member of my race to sit in this house, but also to my constituents who have thought at all times of me only as a Canadian.

I hope, Mr. Speaker, that hon. members will feel some pride from my presence in this house as being one example of the kind of democracy that does exist in this country, I, personally, derive deep satisfaction from being here because hon. members may not know that, less than 10 years ago, Canadians of Chinese extraction did not have the provincial franchise in British Columbia. I understand that British Columbia was the only province that had that restriction. Since that time British Columbia has made amends so admirably that to that province must now go the credit for sending a Canadian Chinese to the House of Commons. While those of us in the Conservative party will take particular pleasure in my election, which election will refute any argument that this party

has been discriminatory to certain groups in the past, I am sure that hon. members on both sides will rejoice that we in this country have a system of government that does not extol its virtues by fanfare, but by expressing our belief in our principles by deeds and not words.

I wish to record also at this time, Mr. Speaker, my deep respect for the Right Hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr. St. Laurent). At the conclusion of the second day's sitting in this house, and because I was anxious to meet a man who is generally acknowledged to be a great Canadian, I went over and introduced myself to the right hon. gentleman, and he acknowledged my intrusion in the most gracious and courteous terms for which he has long been noted. I trust that when I leave this house, I shall leave with the same esteem and high regard in which all hon. members hold the right hon. gentleman.

It is my intention, Mr. Speaker, to speak very briefly about a few things which have particular application to my constituency of Vancouver Centre. As you know, my constituency contains almost all of the downtown business and financial districts of the city of Vancouver. There is in it, among others, a very large group of clerical workers. Many of these workers, as indeed workers in all occupations, have at one time or another suffered severe financial loss through illness. It is with a view to alleviating that problem that I urge the government to give some consideration to extending the benefits under the Unemployment Insurance Act. A great number of people have contributed to this fund, and while the possibility of their being out of work is always present, I think the chances of their losing time through illness is much greater. Yet, while they are absent from work through illness, they cannot apply for benefits. I feel that the fund is now sufficiently established whereby benefits could be extended without making further demands on the government. These remarks, of course, are qualified in the light of the proposed national health legislation which this government plans to implement.

My next proposal has to do with the university students. I am sure that all hon. members will agree that, in this particular age, young people should be encouraged to attend universities. As one who, among others, attended university under rather straitened financial circumstances, I urge the government to give some consideration to exempting from income tax the summer earnings of university students. I think the loss in income to the government from this source would be quite small, while the benefit to be 96698-62

The Address-Mr. Jung derived by this particular class of people would far outweigh the temporary loss of income to this government.

Next, Mr. Speaker, the position of retired civil servants, as indeed the position of all senior citizens, veterans and disabled persons, will always occupy and have my prime interest. I shall defer my remarks on this subject because of the legislation which has been introduced. But I should like to suggest that an inquiry be made into this entire field of social legislation, which would examine old age pensions, health and unemployment insurance. I know this proposal is not new, but I submit that the object of this inquiry should be to insure that the administration of these overlapping agencies should be performed as efficiently as possible, rather than to see how much more should be granted at the present time.

My final proposal has to do with the immigration of Chinese nationals. My constituency contains the largest group of Chinese in Canada. Out of some 44,000, British Columbia has 10,000; Vancouver alone has approximately 7,000. But lest some hon. members think that I was elected only through the efforts of the Chinese community, may I explain that, if every one of the registered Chinese voters had voted against me, I still would have been elected with a substantial majority. I mention this point merely to emphasize a fact that most hon. members will appreciate, and that is that no person can be elected through the efforts of any one minority group. His support must be much broader.

I speak on this matter of immigration, Mr. Speaker, not because I advocate an influx of Chinese, but because I believe that we owe a moral obligation to the early Chinese immigrants who are now naturalized Canadian citizens. Many of our early immigrants had to pay a head tax ranging from $100 to $500 in order to enter Canada, and they were not allowed to bring their wives or families with them. They were thus, for a long time, deprived of a normal home life. Regulations were relaxed in 1947 which permitted, within limits, the entry into Canada of dependants of Chinese who were naturalized Canadian citizens. There is still, however, a number of families whose members are separated.

Without going into technical details, it is my intention to urge the government to expedite the entry into Canada of these dependants, so that the members of the Chinese community who have contributed so much to the development of this country, and who have been denied a home life for so long, may be able to enjoy a measure of

The Address-Mr. Jung happiness during the last few years before they pass on. The number of persons so affected is not large. I am informed by a responsible source that even if the government were to relax the regulations today to cover this category the total number affected would be approximately 6,000. Hon. members will appreciate the fact that this number is insignificant compared to immigration from other parts of the world. There is no danger whatsoever of a great influx. Once these people have been taken care of, then of course the immigration regulations will be applied alike to all immigrants, no matter from which country they come.

The early Chinese immigrants referred to Canada as Gun Shan, or Golden Mountain, because of the opportunities which this country held out to them. Material success came only to a very few. Nevertheless, these people still held to their faith in Canada. Today, these same people feel that their faith has been completely vindicated because they have seen the election of a Canadian Chinese to the House of Commons. They feel that whatever opportunities they missed, their children will now have.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, while I am dealing with the question of Chinese immigration, I think that it is appropriate that I say something about the rise of the Asiatic countries and their influence on world politics. It is not my intention to speak about things connected with government policy because I know that there are other hon. members who are more competent than I to speak on those matters. But because of my background, Mr. Speaker, and because of my ability to speak the language, I feel that in this particular field I can perhaps interpret to hon. members the thinking and the psychology of some of the Asian peoples. My remarks are therefore directed more at the approach which we might take towards these peoples.

Mr. Speaker, we have today two opposing forces, namely the eastern bloc, composed of Russia and her satellites, and the western bloc consisting of the commonwealth and the United States. There is no doubt that in the commonwealth we have a strong political unit; but counteracting this commonwealth group is the new Afro-Asian group which has emerged, and it is with this group that I wish to deal.

I think that a suitable starting point for my remarks would be to relate to you, Mr. Speaker, a comment made by one of the Asian delegates to the legal committee of the United Nations. In discussing international law this learned gentleman said that

international law should now begin to feel the influence and to receive the impact of the Asian point of view. To me, Mr. Speaker, that was a most significant statement because international law is a comparatively new field of law and is still in its evolutionary stage.

We have today two great systems of law, the British common law system and the system of law based on the Code Napoleon. The leaders of Asia, in a great number of cases, have received their legal training from either one of these two schools and they have tried to evolve a system which would have particular application to their countries. Some of these countries, in their newly found situations of freedom and independence, are now aggressively asserting their status. We all appreciate that in the assertion of their status many of them are still feeling their way and that, owing to certain periods in their history, they are sensitive to the manner of the approach which certain western countries make to them. Because of this sensitivity, I suggest that our approach to these countries might be different than to those countries which have had and enjoyed a longer period of political development.

To the oriental peoples particularly, Mr. Speaker, an approach based on reasoned argument, and presented with sympathy and courtesy rather than with an air of condescension or superiority is, I suggest, the kind of approach that will produce the desired effect of gaining their trust and co-operation. Because Canada is not, and will never be, I do not think, a major power, and because of our treatment of minority groups generally, this is the kind of approach that Canada can make without any sense of embarrassment or guilt. I suggest that Canada, by acting as the spokesman for the more highly developed countries, and because of our support for the United Nations and its agencies, can with facility and confidence explore new channels in order to help the west acquire the friendship and trust of this Afro-Asian bloc.

This Afro-Asian bloc, which today consists of 22 countries, is in great need of economic and social development. But many of these 22 countries, some of which are part of the commonwealth, are being assiduously wooed by Russia. Russia is extending to those countries aid in every conceivable form, from economic to military. I suggest that Canada, because of our unique position in world affairs established through a record and reputation of non-exploitation, is in a position to take the lead in contacting these

nations, on behalf of the western countries, for the purpose of extending a more vigorous policy of economic and social aid.

I say "a more vigorous policy" because since world war II it has always been Russia which has created para-military situations which leave the western countries gasping and desperately striving to recover. Why should we, with our superior resources and professed political sophistication, always be in a position where we are caught short? At one time we thought that the west was at least superior in technical achievements. That belief has now been dramatically shattered.

Mr. Speaker, I suggest that the satellite countries in Europe are beyond our reach and influence. They are too closely under the control of Russia. And so we have the Afro-Asian bloc as the remaining alternative on which to expend our efforts. The economic and military potential of this group staggers the imagination, and we in Canada with our 16 million people might do worse than to be on friendly terms with this bloc of countries which comprise almost a billion of the world's population. I believe that most of these countries want peace and that they need a period for economic development. Because of our limited resources, Canada alone cannot begin an overly ambitious program of economic aid to these countries. Nevertheless, the suggestion put forward recently that Canada take the lead in research into the use of commercial atomic power for these underdeveloped countries is one which to me merits serious consideration, notwithstanding some of the financial aspects involved.

The role which I have suggested for Canada insofar as the Afro-Asian bloc is concerned may not always be an easy one, because some of these countries, imbued with a newly-forged sense of nationalism and being jealous of their status, have unfortunately gone to the other extreme in order to impress upon the world their new position.

Mr. Speaker, I repeat that probably none of the things that I have said are new; in fact all of what I have said may present difficulties of which others more qualified than myself are aware. Nevertheless, it is because I feel so strongly and so very deeply about the impact of the Far East upon world politics, and because I am concerned that we do not lose any more of the traditional friendship which this country has enjoyed with these countries that I say these things today, knowing full well that hon. members are already giving full consideration to these problems. Nevertheless, I, like other young people, have reserved the right to my generation of repeating the obvious with all the 96698-624

The Address-Mr. MacEachen courage we can muster. I know that I share with other hon. members the great faith that we have in the future of Canada, and I hope that in time we may see Canada emerge, not only as a great country but also as a great humanitarian nation.

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LIB

Allan Joseph MacEachen

Liberal

Mr. A. J. MacEachen (Inverness-Richmond):

Mr. Speaker, at the very beginning of my remarks in this debate I wish to congratulate very sincerely the hon. gentleman who has just taken his seat and who made such a very outstanding maiden speech which was received with sympathy and interest by all members of this house. I am also conscious as I rise to speak this afternoon that we, like all the other people of Canada, are celebrating a very important remembrance day and that if we do not interrupt the proceedings of the house in order to mark this occasion it is because we feel that the discharge of our parliamentary duties is more in line with the spirit of this day.

I wish also to congratulate you, Mr. Speaker, upon your accession to your new post. Although I have been carrying these congratulations now for some weeks I feel they can be made with more substance today because the confident expectation expressed by the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. St. Laurent) as to the outcome of your election has been well justified by the good humour and firmness with which you have guided us so far this session.

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Some hon. Members:

Hear, hear.

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November 11, 1957