November 1, 1957

PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Hon. E. D. Fulton (Acting Minister of Citizenship and Immigration):

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for giving me notice of this question. I should say that I cannot accept all the implications in his question as

648 HOUSE OF

Inquiries of the Ministry he has phrased it, but the result of inquiries establishes that there was a Mr. Per Holting who was involved in such an incident at Winnipeg at 9 a.m. on Friday, October 25. In our citizenship files we have a record of a Mr. Per Beckmand Holting and it may well be, therefore, that the man involved in this incident is the same as the one on our files, in which case he would be a Canadian citizen.

It would appear that Mr. Holting, who had been in Greenland on an assignment for the C.B.C., purchased a ticket from Greenland to Los Angeles, and that when the aircraft landed at Winnipeg he attempted to get off. According to press reports Mr. Holting claimed that he was unaware that he could not debark but, as the house knows, the transport regulations do not permit Scandinavian Airlines to debark passengers at Winnipeg. When Mr. Holting persisted in his efforts the captain of the aircraft called the St. James municipal police, who put him back on board, and I understand that he continued on the flight to Los Angeles.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
CCF

Alistair McLeod Stewart

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Stewart (Winnipeg North):

Do I understand, then, that the transport regulations override the basic rights of Canadian citizens?

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

Mr. Speaker, I do not think there would be any profit in entering into a controversy here. I think the situation, while difficult, is clear. I understand it is a condition of the ticket sold that the passenger must continue through to Los Angeles and cannot debark in Winnipeg.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
LIB

George Carlyle Marler

Liberal

Hon. George C. Marler (Si. Anioine-West-mounl):

May I ask a supplementary question of the Minister of Justice. Can he tell us what regulations apply to the incident to which he has just referred? He has mentioned regulations of the air transport board. I should like to know what those regulations are.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
?

James Ross Fulton

Mr. Fullon:

I do not think I referred to regulations of the air transport board. If I used the word "regulations" I did so in the general sense and perhaps should have used the phrase "conditions of the ticket" which are imposed, I believe, by the agreement under which this air service is allowed to operate into Canada.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. M. J. Coldwell (Roselown-Biggar):

May

I ask a supplementary question of the minister of immigration. Is it not a fact that the sale of a ticket to an individual merely precludes the possibility of a ticket sale to Winnipeg; but if the passenger takes a ticket to Los Angeles, and he is a Canadian citizen, could he not disembark even if his ticket read to Los Angeles?

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

I think that might be an issue that would have to be tried in the courts, and I would not care to express an opinion here and now. I think it should also be noted that, in my understanding, Scandinavian Airlines would be subject to a heavy penalty if they permitted a passenger to debark at Winnipeg. As to the propriety of the action which was taken, it not having been taken by any governmental authority-at least certainly not by an official of the dominion government but by the police of St. James at the request of the air line-it seems to me that it is not the sort of thing on which I should comment offhandedly. As to whether there was any right infringed, it seems to me that if there was the person concerned has an opportunity of asserting that right and having it settled in the courts.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I have a further supplementary question of the Minister of Justice.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

Before the hon. member asks the question may I warn him that it appears that these questions relate to matters not under the jurisdiction of the minister, and also they ask for legal opinions.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Bonavista-Twil-lingate):

I was going to ask the minister concerned this question. Of course I recognize that the minister should not give legal opinions himself in the house, but in view of the fundamental provision of the Immigration Act that a Canadian citizen has the right to enter Canada at all times it does seem to me-and I am not criticizing the government at all in saying this-

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Question.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

Perhaps the hon. gentlemen can possess their souls in patience just a little while. My question is this. Would the minister get from the law officers of the crown an opinion as to whether any Canadian citizen, a police officer or anyone else, has the right to take another Canadian citizen and put him on a vehicle sending him out of the country? It seems to me that this is an extraordinary thing to permit one citizen to do to another, even if he happens to be a police officer. I want to emphasize again-

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
?

Some hon. Members:

Oh, oh.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

I think the hon. member has taken considerable latitude in stating his question.

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink
PC

Edmund Davie Fulton (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

Mr. Speaker, I think the terms of the question fairly well provide its own answer.

Inquiries of the Ministry (Translation) ;

Topic:   IMMIGRATION PER HOLTING
Subtopic:   REPORTED DEPORTATION WITHOUT HEARING
Permalink

HUMAN RIGHTS

INQUIRY AS TO LEGISLATION PROVIDING BILL OF RIGHTS

CCF

Alistair McLeod Stewart

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Alistair Stewart (Winnipeg North):

May I ask a supplementary question of the Prime Minister.

Topic:   HUMAN RIGHTS
Subtopic:   INQUIRY AS TO LEGISLATION PROVIDING BILL OF RIGHTS
Permalink
PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

A further supplementary question?

Topic:   HUMAN RIGHTS
Subtopic:   INQUIRY AS TO LEGISLATION PROVIDING BILL OF RIGHTS
Permalink
CCF

Alistair McLeod Stewart

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Stewart (Winnipeg North):

I wish to direct a supplementary question to the Prime Minister. Is he yet in a position to inform us when he will be prepared to bring down legislation providing for a bill of rights for Canadians?

Topic:   HUMAN RIGHTS
Subtopic:   INQUIRY AS TO LEGISLATION PROVIDING BILL OF RIGHTS
Permalink

November 1, 1957