April 8, 1957

LIB

Edward Turney Applewhaite (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Applewhaite):

Is

there unanimous consent to revert to routine proceedings?

Topic:   MISCELLANEOUS PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   FIFTEENTH AND SIXTEENTH REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEE
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?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

Mr. Henderson presented the fifteenth and sixteenth reports of the standing committee on miscellaneous private bills.

Topic:   MISCELLANEOUS PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   FIFTEENTH AND SIXTEENTH REPORTS OF STANDING COMMITTEE
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HEALTH INSURANCE

AUTHORIZATION OF PAYMENTS FROM CONSOLIDATED REVENUE FUND

LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin (Minister of National Health and Welfare)

Liberal

Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of National Health and Welfare) moved

the third reading of Bill No. 320, to authorize contributions by Canada in respect of programs administered by the provinces, providing hospital insurance and laboratory and other services in aid of diagnosis.

Topic:   HEALTH INSURANCE
Subtopic:   AUTHORIZATION OF PAYMENTS FROM CONSOLIDATED REVENUE FUND
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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Stanley Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):

Mr. Speaker, before this bill, which we welcome and support, is read the third time and passed there are a few words I should like to say. First of all may I point out that this party has urged across the years, not only the establishment of a nation-wide program of health insurance on a comprehensive basis but we have welcomed every step that has been taken in that direction.

I recall, in particular, the welcome which we accorded the announcement of a health grants program which was made in the house by the late Mr. Mackenzie King on May 14, 1948. We knew what was being proposed at

Health Insurance

that time, namely that it was only a health grants program, but nevertheless we recognized Mr. King's statement that its purpose was to lay the foundation for a nation-wide program of health insurance. Because it was good in itself, and because it was designed to lay the foundation for health insurance, we welcomed and gave support to that program. Likewise, in January, 1956, when the present Prime Minister (Mr. St. Laurent) announced the government's readiness to go into a hospital insurance scheme, we welcomed that statement.

The Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. Martin) will recall that when we first discussed this matter in the committee on estimates last year my first words on behalf of the C.C.F. were to the effect that we welcomed this further step along the road towards health insurance. Nevertheless we must point out that it is only a step, and we shall continue to work for a broad comprehensive program, not just of hospital insurance but of full health insurance for all our people. This bill, therefore, though we welcome it is deficient in that it is only a step rather than complete health insurance.

It is deficient also in that it is not even complete hospital insurance. I have in mind some of the matters we have discussed at earlier stages. It is deficient also in that it provides for a federal contribution of only 50 per cent of hospital cost, whereas we feel that contribution should be 80 per cent. Nevertheless, because this is a step towards health insurance, we welcome this bill. When a final vote is called, and we believe there should be a final vote on third reading, we shall support the bill. I hope that the vote of the house at that time will be unanimous.

However, the bill does contain one provision we think should not be there. It is a provision which makes it possible for actual implementation of this legislation to be delayed. That has been the sorriest part of health insurance so far as the Liberal party is concerned over the years, namely, delay. Even now when at long last we have this bill before us there is in it a clause requiring that six provinces must agree before payments can be made, a clause which makes it possible for a province like my province of Manitoba to veto this legislation of the federal parliament.

We want this legislation, and we are voting for it, but we think that clause has no place in it. Therefore, I rise at this moment to make these few remarks and to move an amendment which I shall present in half a minute. If our amendment is disposed of, whatever the vote on the amendment may be, we feel that in the end there should be a vote

on the main motion to show where the house stands on this legislation. We shall vote for that main motion. But until we reach that final point we think the house should have an opportunity to express its view as to whether or not it is proper to keep in this kind of legislation a clause that makes it possible for some of the provinces representing a minority of the people of this country, to veto legislation that is for the benefit of the people of Canada as a whole.

I therefore move, seconded by the hon. member for Mackenzie (Mr. Nicholson):

That Bill No. 320 be not now read a third time but that it be referred back to the committee of the whole house for the purpose of reconsidering the requirement that six provinces must enter into an agreement before contributions can be paid to any province, as set out in subclause (2) of clause 6 of the said bill.

Topic:   HEALTH INSURANCE
Subtopic:   AUTHORIZATION OF PAYMENTS FROM CONSOLIDATED REVENUE FUND
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?

Murdo William Martin

Mr. Marlin:

Mr. Speaker, the amendment which my hon. friend has put forward in substance is precisely the same as an amendment in another form which was introduced earlier in the discussions of this particular measure. The amendment proposes that the provision of the requirement for six provinces should not be insisted upon and should not be included in the bill. As I indicated today, the purpose of including the six provinces as one of the necessary conditions is to make it possible to have, as nearly as can be arranged, a nation-wide system of hospital insurance. If we did not have the provision of six provinces in the bill we would not be faced with the fact that we now have five provinces which have accepted our proposal.

What we are seeking is a nation-wide system of hospital insurance, and the only way that can be attained under our constitutional arrangement is by having an agreement with the provinces. If we had said that we were prepared to enter into an arrangement with fewer than the specified number we would not tonight have five provinces. If we remove the word "six" we will not encourage the adhesion of a greater number of provinces. I have no doubt that when this bill is passed in the provinces of our country we shall have more than six provinces. But if my hon. friend wants to resort to any measure to discourage having at least six provinces or more, this proposal is the way to do it.

My hon. friend has said that he is in favour of this measure; that he welcomes it as a forward step, but he has taken a step tonight by this previously attempted amendment which is calculated to delay the acceptance of this bill more than anything else could do. For this reason alone I certainly

would urge this house not to accept this amendment but to support the bill as it is drawn now, a bill which has brought in five provinces, a bill which is calculated to bring in more.

This week we are to have further conferences with the province of New Brunswick. I have no doubt that the date is not very far oil when that province will come in. Does my hon. friend think that by this particular amendment he is furthering the possibility of a nation-wide system of health insurance? If he does, I take serious and strong issue with him.

Topic:   HEALTH INSURANCE
Subtopic:   AUTHORIZATION OF PAYMENTS FROM CONSOLIDATED REVENUE FUND
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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

Widen the coverage and all the provinces will come in.

Topic:   HEALTH INSURANCE
Subtopic:   AUTHORIZATION OF PAYMENTS FROM CONSOLIDATED REVENUE FUND
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SC

Frederick Davis Shaw

Social Credit

Mr. F. D. Shaw (Red Deer):

Mr. Speaker, I rise only to ask the minister for a word of explanation. I should like to know by what method of reasoning the minister comes to the conclusion that if it were not for this proviso that six provinces come in we would not have the five that have now agreed to come in? That has me confused. By what process of reasoning does the minister come

Business of the House

to the conclusion that we would not have the five today if we did not have the proviso that six must come in?

Topic:   HEALTH INSURANCE
Subtopic:   AUTHORIZATION OF PAYMENTS FROM CONSOLIDATED REVENUE FUND
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LIB

Edward Turney Applewhaite (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Applewhaite):

Is

the house ready for the question?

Topic:   HEALTH INSURANCE
Subtopic:   AUTHORIZATION OF PAYMENTS FROM CONSOLIDATED REVENUE FUND
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

Ten o'clock.

Topic:   HEALTH INSURANCE
Subtopic:   AUTHORIZATION OF PAYMENTS FROM CONSOLIDATED REVENUE FUND
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LIB

Elmore Philpott

Liberal

Mr. Philpott:

I move the adjournment of the debate.

On motion of Mr. Philpott the debate was adjourned.

Topic:   HEALTH INSURANCE
Subtopic:   AUTHORIZATION OF PAYMENTS FROM CONSOLIDATED REVENUE FUND
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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I understand it would be agreeable to hon. members opposite if the Minister of Finance moved tomorrow to go into supply, on the understanding that there would be a division taken at 8.15 o'clock, in order to give all hon. members an opportunity to air grievances. If that course should be agreeable to hon. gentlemen opposite, it could be clearly understood that that would be what the government would propose for tomorrow.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
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At ten o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.



Question


ANSWER TO QUESTION


The following answer, deposited with the Clerk of the house, is printed in the official report of debates pursuant to standing order 39:


WHITE BEAR INDIAN RESERVE, CARLYLE, SASK.

CCF

Mr. McCullough (Moose

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mountain):

X. Have any contracts been entered into between the government and oil companies in connection with oil leases or other contracts in regard to property on the White Bear Indian reserve, Carlyle, Saskatchewan? If so, how many?

2. How many of these are presently in effect?

3. What are the names of the companies involved and what is the basis of contract in each case?

4. How much money has been received by the federal government on each contract and how much money in each case has been allocated to the White Bear band fund in each case?

5. What proportion of all moneys received from leases, royalties or contracts has been allocated to band funds on White Bear reserve?

6. How many oil well drillings have been made on the White Bear reserve to date?

7. How many gallons of oil have been produced?

8. What is the viscosity of oil that has been produced?

Answer by: Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Minister

of Citizenship and Immigration):

1. Yes, 13.

2. Nine.

3. Bob jo Mines Limited. Permits under the regulations respecting petroleum and natural

gas on Indian reserves and Indian lands (1948). Ajax Petroleums Limited. Permits and leases under the same regulations.

4 and 5. Moneys received under each contract, and moneys allocated to White Bear band fund are:

Fees retained in Allocated to Consolidated White Bear

Revenue Band Fund

Permit No. 93 $ 50.00

Permit No. 94

50.00Permit No. 95

50.00Permit No. 96

50.00

Lease No. 151-rents Lease No. 152-rents Lease No. 152-royalties Lease No. 180-rents Lease No. 181-rents Lease No. 182-rents Lease No. 183-rents Lease No. 185-rents Lease No. 186-rents Surface lease No. 151-1

Tuesday, April 9, 1957

Topic:   WHITE BEAR INDIAN RESERVE, CARLYLE, SASK.
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April 8, 1957