Mr. Benidickson:

Would not this be an engineering project and I would imagine that the machinery itself would not be subject to assessment. If it were within an organized municipality, and in conjunction with it there were a number of dwellings for operating personnel, then those dwellings would be subject to assessment, I am sure.

Mr. Gillis:

The station itself would not, despite the fact it is operated by the services?

Mr. Benidickson:

The land occupied by this technical military apparatus would be subject to assessment, but I repeat not such values of your federal government as runways at airports. The land under the runway is assessed, but not the pavement and not the hangars. Then, of course, if located on a self-contained military establishment it would not be subject to the normal assessment. We have special provisions in this amending bill. If a number of the personnel were occupying dwellings on the land the federal government would be assessed, and the land on which the apparatus was situated would be subject to assessment.

Mr. Brooks:

The same thing would apply to a television station?

Mr. Jones:

Would the assessment be carried out by the municipality involved, or would the government carry out its own assessment?

Mr. Benidickson:

The government retains the right to review the assessment. It does not submit itself to an arbitrary assessment

Municipal Grants Act

valuation by the municipality. What is normally done by our department is to look at the assessment, and then some federal civil servant will look into it and have a look at the assessment on other properties in that municipality, with a view to determining that the valuations and assessments of federal government properties are in line with those of any other taxpayer. It is just a question of being treated fairly and equally within the municipality, and the minister retains discretion to argue over the assessment.

Mr. Weir:

If the parliamentary assistant does not mind I wonder if he would expand a little further his reference to the taxable part of an experimental farm. For instance, would that not only apply to the land? These properties are considerably enhanced in value by government expenditures on buildings for research and things of that nature. Would these farms not be in the same position as military establishments in so far as the basis of taxation is concerned? Would he also make reference, if he has information here, to the position of Indian agencies in the application of this act?

Mr. Benidickson:

With respect to the normal experimental farm, it will be subject to assessment and a grant in lieu of taxes will be paid in the ordinary way.

Mr. Weir:

That is on the land?

Mr. Benidickson:

On the whole property. The only exception that comes to my mind is a certain portion of the Ottawa experimental farm which is more in the nature of a public park. A certain portion of the Ottawa farm land is not used for farm work. In so far as tax arrangements are concerned between the federal government and Ottawa, a large portion of the farm has been considered for the assessment in connection with the grant in lieu of taxes.

As to the matter of Indian agencies, that would depend entirely on whether the Indian agency was on an Indian reserve or normally on land within a municipality. If it was off the reserve the building occupied to carry on the business of the agency would be subject to assessment.

Mr. Matheson:

I have a question which concerns the recognizable taxing authority as well as perhaps the buildings and installations. I am thinking of Wood islands, the Prince Edward Island terminal of the Wood Islands-Caribou ferry. There we have a building which is used by the inspection service of the fruit and vegetable department and the seed potato certification branch of the Department of Agriculture. There is also under construction right now a dock or berthing facilities for the new ferry, the cost of which

Supply-Post Office

will probably run close to $500,000. There the only taxing authority would be the rural school board. I wonder whether the parliamentary assistant can enlighten me on that?

Mr. Benidickson:

Wharves as such are specifically excluded from assessment in this bill. We have a new feature with which I am sure the hon. member is familiar. Certain school districts in the province of Prince Edward Island have independent rights to tax, and for the first time we shall be able to make grants to these independently authorized school district taxing authorities.

Mr. Patterson:

Am I right in assuming that in the past no taxes or grants in lieu of taxes have been paid on experimental farms?

Mr. Benidickson:

I do not think that is so. I think it is simply a matter that the original 4 per cent floor excluded most of the experimental farms throughout our rural municipalities across the country. That 4 per cent average as a floor exclusion was, of course, reduced to 2 per cent later. That must have made those farms ineligible, but now that there is no floor of elimination I think the principle would help in what you have in mind.

Mr. Patterson:

They have been excluded in assessments?

Mr. Benidickson:

Yes.