February 20, 1957

LIB

Hugh Alexander MacKenzie

Liberal

Mr. MacKenzie:

On a question of privilege, I said I would oppose it in its present form; that if it did not apply all over Canada I would oppose it.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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CCF

Hazen Robert Argue

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Argue:

That is fair enough; I accept that. The hon. member made his position clear, that unless the minister would accept his ultimatum he was going to vote against this legislation. It would appear that if any conversions need to be made to the adoption of a national policy and to greater national unity and to the setting up of a program that takes into account the welfare of all parts of this nation, they will have to be made among the members on the government side of the house.

As a member coming from western Canada I naturally appreciate any legislation which

Prairie Farm Assistance Act will help the people with whom I am associated, but in discussing the Prairie Farm Assistance Act I have always said-I said it last night before the hon. member spoke- that the principle of this kind of thing should not be confined only to the prairie provinces. We support the legislation as it now stands because we say it has been of help to us. However, we think the government is allowing its value to deteriorate by failing to act. Nevertheless it is still valuable and always has been.

We say also that legislation should be provided on a national basis to help agricultural producers in all parts of Canada when they experience widespread crop failure. I submit that is the kind of attitude to take instead of a dog in the manger attitude, instead of saying that if somebody else is going to get a meal when someone associated with me is hungry and is not fed, then I am going to stop everybody from eating. That is the attitude adopted by the hon. member for Lambton-Kent.

The hon. member went on to outline what he called the hand-outs and subsidies that have been made on behalf of the people of western Canada in a 20-year period. I thought he was going to arrive at a staggering sum in relation to , the expenditures this government has undertaken. But working on a yearly basis the hon. member came up with a total-he can correct me if I am misrepresenting what he said, because it is not my intention so to do-of about $25 million per year over the last 20 years. I ask him if that is a very large part of the government's estimates which today are running between $4 billion and $5 billion a year. Is it too much to say that the people of one area are getting less than 1 per cent of the total estimates to be passed this year? I do not think so.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

There is more than that in old age pensions to the west.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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CCF

Hazen Robert Argue

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Argue:

That is another form of subsidy the minister is now talking about.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

That is the point.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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CCF

Hazen Robert Argue

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Argue:

The minister missed the point of the hon. member for Lambton-Kent.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

On a point of order, if I may interrupt long enough, I missed the speech of the hon. member for Lambton-Kent, but when my hon. friend says he does not-

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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?

An hon. Member:

What is the point of order?

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

My hon. friend says that he is not intending to misrepresent the hon. member, and then he discusses what I take to be the grants under this and similar legislation for the west.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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CCF

Hazen Robert Argue

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Argue:

For farmers.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

He then relates that to the total spending of the government, but surely he is misrepresenting when he tries to suggest that $25 million annually is all the western farmers get in relation to the $5 billion. He should take into account in the $5 billion all the expenditures made for and on behalf of the people of the west.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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CCF

Hazen Robert Argue

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Argue:

I do not think that is a point of order. I am quite happy to listen to the speech of the minister, but I do not think he is raising a point of order.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

I think the point of order is well taken. If my hon. friend will permit me, may I say that if he loves this particular legislation so much why is he talking it to death? Let us get on and pass it.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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CCF

Hazen Robert Argue

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Argue:

I am afraid that was not a very brilliant interjection by the Minister of Finance on a point of order. In this instance I do not think he was up to his usual form. The hon. member for Lambton-Kent was saying that these were substantial grants for agriculture only.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

Then relate it to the specific grants.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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CCF

Hazen Robert Argue

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Argue:

I related it to the total amount.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

Relate it to the specific grants.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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CCF

Hazen Robert Argue

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Argue:

I will relate it. Of course the government has not yet been able to deny to the people who farm and who have families the benefits of family allowances and old age pensions. We expect that in any broad program for all the people of Canada they will share, but I was relating my remarks to the statement made by the hon. member for Lambton-Kent who confined his remarks to something special to the agricultural industry. I have the public accounts before me, and I note in section K23 that government contributions toward the unemployment insurance fund for the year ending March 31, 1956, amounted to $33,892,000.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

On a point of order, how far are we going to go in the discussion of this legislation. We are now into unemployment insurance and have been all over the place.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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PC

James MacKerras Macdonnell

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Macdonnell:

As far as the Minister of Finance takes us.

Topic:   PRAIRIE FARM ASSISTANCE ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS TO INCREASE AUTHORIZED AWARDS AND LEVY
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February 20, 1957