January 18, 1957

PC

James MacKerras Macdonnell

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Macdonnell:

Does the hon. member

know, even approximately, what is the percentage of the population in the United Kingdom attending universities as compared with the percentage say in Canada and in the United States? Does he know that percentage, however roughly?

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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Coldwell:

No. I am going to rely on

the figure given by the Leader of the Opposition this morning.

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PC

James MacKerras Macdonnell

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Macdonnell:

Was that figure not

showing how many were assisted? I am asking the other question. I was under the impression that the percentage in the United Kingdom is low as compared with ours.

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CCF

Major James William Coldwell

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Coldwell:

If my hon. friend knows he can give that figure. I do not know the figure. I think it would be interesting if, when he rises to participate in the debate, -as I imagine he will-he would give us this figure, for frankly I do not know it. However, I know this. In the past number of years-the past 20 years at least-in the United Kingdom new universities have been chartered and new secondary schools have been built as well as grammar schools that are available to the boys and girls in districts that I knew as a lad. As a matter of fact, if I may give my own experience, I was obliged to travel every morning some 30 miles by train to school in order to get a grammar school education whereas today there are three grammar schools within easy reach, one within the borders of the area where I was born. I notice that they have much greater opportunities for both secondary education and university education now than then. As I say, however, I have not the percentage. I know that it is much easier for a boy or girl today to get a university education in the United Kingdom because

Canada Council

there are so many more bursaries and scholarships available than in our country. Whereas some 30 years ago or more a young man or woman desiring a university education could work during the summer holiday period and often earn enough to get through, today, of course, with the increase in the cost of board, the cost of fees, books and so on, it is more difficult than it was years ago. But as I say, I have not the comparable figures that my hon. friend asks me to produce.

I am not going to say a great deal more because when the bill comes down we shall be able to find out exactly what the government has in mind. I am happy to know that the government intends to appoint a council that will be representative of all parts of Canada and of the citizens of Canada without regard to partisan considerations. That is as it should be. I am not going to make to the Prime Minister or to the government this afternoon any suggestions as to who should or should not be members of such a council. We welcome this resolution. We shall welcome the legislation when it comes down. We shall give it our consideration and, in the respects in which we think it is worthy of support,-and I believe generally that it will be worthy of support-we shall support it. This is something that we have needed for a long time. I am happy to see that at last we are going to get this forward step. On behalf of my colleagues as -well as myself I welcome this resolution.

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SC

Solon Earl Low

Social Credit

Mr. Low:

Mr. Chairman, as I listened to the Prime Minister this morning and to the other speakers who have dealt with the proposal that the Canada Council be appointed, I thought of what my father told me when I was a boy. I think he had read it from Hugh Walpole's writings. It went something like this: The whole secret of living is to be interested in one thing profoundly and in a thousand things well. My father in my early youth said to me, "I believe that is quite true and I would suggest that during your life you learn to be an apostle of abundant living." Mr. Chairman, I have consciously attempted to fulfil what my father suggested was a good way of life. As a consequence I have deliberately sought the art of diversified living. Here I must confess that it has been most delightful and that I have found that happiness which has come through knowing at least one thing profoundly and in being acquainted with a thousand things well.

I would take it that the meaning of that advice is the pursuit of culture. I listened carefully to what the Prime Minister said

Canada Council

this morning and I deliberately asked him a question about the humanities in order to get exactly what was in his mind with regard to the matter. From what he said I believe that the thing which I have consciously attempted to do was to set out to find culture. I do not profess to be cultured. I am afraid that I have missed it by a good long way. However, there are many things that I appreciate of the finer things of life. I also agree that we in this country, should do everything we possibly can to nourish and to sustain the arts, to borrow words used by the Prime Minister in his speech this morning, and to encourage everybody in our land to try to find that art of diversified and abundant living. It is satisfying, it is zestful; it makes people happy and it makes them understand one another much better than they have ever understood one another before.

I remember a journey which I took quite a number of years ago before the time of common travel by aeroplane. I found myself in the middle of a desert in the state of Nevada in the United States. Nightfall came on. We had been travelling across the trackless wastes for many hours without seeing anything but an occasional sign of life. Finally we came to what later proved to be an oasis. We were invited in to spend the evening by the people who lived in the home there. To our delight we discovered something that has remained with us, or at least it has with me, over all these years. I discovered a marvellous family. It was a family poor in this world's goods, struggling to make a living, not certain of the future or of the security that so many of us seek. However, I found that it had a well-stocked library that had been gathered together at great pains and great cost, perhaps through the sacrifice of other things. In the home I saw a piano and other musical instruments. I saw the children performing on them for our entertainment that night. They were self-taught or practically so, the mother and father having given every encouragement to the development of musical talent.

I want to say, Mr. Chairman, that in the course of the evening, as I listened to their entertainment and as I listened to the stimulating conversation that went on amongst the members of that family and with others, I could not help coming to the conclusion that here in the middle of a desert, isolated from all of the advantages that people normally enjoy these days, we found real culture. Here we found happiness and abundant living. I could not help but conclude also, as I listened to what went on today, that it was not government subsidized. It grew spontaneously out of a desire to excel, to develop.

IMr. Low.]

I must say, Mr. Chairman, to me it was stimulating because of the very spontaneity with which it came about. It was done by individuals for their own enlightenment, their own progress, and for the entertainment and delight of their fellow men as they came by. They were veritably dwellers by the side of the road where the race of men go by, not in great numbers; but it was a delight, I tell you, to spend an evening with these people.

I am thinking also of the southern negro of the United States. Nobody can ever claim that those people enjoyed many amenities of life; no one ever thought of subsidizing them or of giving them government assistance in the development of their culture. Just the same, Mr. Chairman, the negroes of the south did, by their won spontaneity and their own hard work, develop a culture that stimulated such great men as Stephen Foster in the writing of his operettas and those lovely songs. Then, there are the negro spirituals and the blues. Some of us do not like the blues, but there are a good many intellectuals who do. Jazz, all of these things, originated with the negro in the southern states. Some of us do not like jazz, perhaps, but I know a great many intellectuals who do and who get a great deal of satisfaction out of it. Mr. Chairman, the negro developed his culture out of his sufferings, out of his triumphs, out of his hard life, and it came as a spontaneous expression of that which was in him. He did not need any encouragement by endowment from the government of the United States to do it, and it enriched the life of the United States as it has enriched the lives of people all over the world.

I am thinking also of the Eskimo of the far north. I read a good deal about the Eskimo, I have talked to people who have worked amongst them, doctors and nurses of the United States who years ago first went amongst the Eskimo in Alaska to try to help those people into a better way of life. Many of those doctors and nurses confessed to me that they had learned from the Eskimo more than they had ever known about culture. They confessed that the Eskimo had developed one of the highest cultures known to civilization. They did it by their own hard work, out of the inspiration within their own souls to excel, to achieve, to develop skills. They did not need any government subsidization to do it. Therefore, I have to wonder just what we are doing when we suggest the setting up of a Canada Council for the purpose of buying culture, subsidizing culture. Mr. Chairman, you cannot buy culture; you cannot get it through the expenditure of money alone. There has to be the will on the part of the people to develop their skills and

achievements. Let us remember that culture is the sum total of the achievements in the physical, the mental, the spiritual, the scientific, the artistic fields. There has to be that will and it seems to me that depends to a very large degree upon heart education. We can accomplish that sort of thing. If you mean, by a Canada Council to encourage and sustain and nourish the arts, helping our Canadian people to understand through needs of the heart, then perhaps some of us might change our views in regard to it.

This morning the Prime Minister spoke of the needs of cultural education. I do not look upon them as needs at all; I think they are desires, and that is all they are. We all desire to see greater achievements in all of these wonderful fields that enrich our life and make it worth while and make it zestful, but they are not really needs by any means. I say we have to consider this whole matter in that light.

I want to pay a tribute to the voluntary bodies that have encouraged and sponsored the arts over the years, bodies like the dominion drama festival, the little theatre movement, the various foundations sponsored by philanthropic people in this land and in other lands. I think they have done a splendid job; but, Mr. Chairman, what has been achieved certainly is not a discredit to the people of Canada, is it? Not by any means.

If we take careful stock of what has been accomplished by the Canadian people in relation to our population we shall find that we have not lagged behind other countries in culture. I have in mind journeys that I have taken through the province of Quebec. I have been in homes where the people have been completely isolated for years from very much connection with the people outside. I refer to the back concessions of the province. I have found real culture in those families, with great devotion to family life, devotion to their religion, devotion to the soil and their country. These things inspired them to develop. When I sat on the front verandas of some of those homes, beautifully whitewashed and kept clean as they were, and watched the family on a Sunday afternoon working together doing splendid things such as wonderful handiwork, singing songs, developing skills and using them, I could not help thinking that there we had a spontaneous expression of the desires and the wills and the hopes. That amounts to culture. That is what it is. And so they too, the families of the country, have done much to help to achieve the standards of culture that we have achieved in this country.

Canada Council

When we speak about the need or the necessity of government subsidization I have wondered, what about Shakespeare, one of the greatest writers of all time, the greatest dramatist. Did he have to depend upon subsidy? Not by any means. He had to depend upon the patronage of Essex and upon what he could get from the Globe theatre, but he developed just the same, and became the greatest writer of all time in the field of drama.

What about some of our great Canadians? What about Raymond Massey? What about Mary Pickford and various others who have become leaders in the field of drama? I suggest to you, Mr. Chairman, that these people are only representative of many others who have excelled, and they did not have to depend upon government subsidy by any means. They achieved what they did through hard work and through the patronage of people who were prepared to pay for what they had to give. Certainly, I say that what we have achieved has been true culture, and it is no discredit to us as a country.

This morning the Prime Minister mentioned what had been accomplished in other countries. He mentioned what they have done in Great Britain and he also mentioned what the United States had accomplished.

Pie suggested that there were certain reasons why the United States did not have a counterpart to the Canada Council. He suggested that in the United States there were a great many philanthropists and wealthy people who became patrons of the arts and scientists. I am going to say to you, Mr. Chairman, that if we had in our country more people of material substance I am quite satisfied that they would be just as generous as the people in the United States have been, but one of the great reasons why we do not have as many wealthy people here, and I think we should begin looking into this, is that we have followed taxation policies that have taken the material substance away from people who would be patrons of the arts and sciences and have left them with little or nothing with which to endow. It is high time we began to take a careful look at what the real effects of our taxation policies have been.

I think we sometimes appear to be a little too anxious. It should be remembered we are still a young country and we have plenty of time in which to develop. I am not suggesting by any means that we lag behind in the development of our arts and sciences but I do think there are priorities as I said the other day; and it seems to me that one of those priorities for claims on any money there is available to be spent is the situation

Canada Council

of those people in our country who are forced to live below the borderline of poverty, the old age pensioners, those who are in receipt of war veterans' allowance and other pensioners. I do not think for one moment that it is going to help an old age pensioner to be cultured prior to the time he is given something to eat. Does the government think, for example, that having culture before we give him something to eat will help him to better appreciate what it means to starve?

I say we ought to be giving greater consideration to those priorities. Old age pensioners constitute one of those priorities and another important one is cancer research. Cancer is one of the great killers and we have found no remedy for it. We ought to devote our energy and resources to finding a cure. I am going to hang my head in shame if we say to the people of this country, "We cannot afford to do these things but we can afford to put up $50 million or $100 million for the purpose of bringing culture to you people." That is putting it in a direct form and those words express exactly the way I feel about this.

I do not for one moment feel that it is unwise to have such a thing as a Canada Council eventually for the development of the arts, letters and sciences. As I have already said, I am devoted to discovering expressions of art through diversified living and all the joys it brings; but I do not know for certain that this is the time for it to emerge as a priority and I doubt very much that this is so.

Let me make it abundantly clear, however, that I find myself if not in complete agreement, at least in substantial agreement, with the second part of the Prime Minister's resolution. Anyone who takes the trouble to examine into the needs of our universities, school divisions and municipalities cannot help but agree with what the Prime Minister said this morning concerning these needs. Not only are our universities overcrowded now but they face an extremely dark future unless something is done to help them achieve the physical plan that is required. The enrolment in our universities is going to be multiplied three or four times prior to 1980. There will be a tremendous influx of students who were the children born just at the end of the war. Within a very few years the universities will not have the physical facilities necessary to take care of this additional enrolment. The burden of supplying this huge capital outlay is too great for the municipalities and school divisions of the provinces to meet. Some means must be found by which they can be assisted.

I know what it means to support children in schools of higher education. I have two children attending university today, one in his third year in the school of medicine and one in second year arts. I have no hesitation in saying it is a heavy drain on the pocket-book as many of you will have experienced. These are not the only children I have sent to university but these two are attending simultaneously. I often think how fortunate I am to be in a position to send them because I know of a great many deserving students whose worthy parents have not been able to send them to school.

The son of a neighbour of mine recently graduated with an outstanding record from one of the local high schools. This worthy young man should have been granted an opportunity of going to university but he was not able to attend simply because his parents did not have sufficient money and he could not find a means of raising it. Worthy students like him should not be deprived of a higher education for monetary reasons and should be given the highest education they are prepared to accept, because every time we graduate a student and equip him with skills and degrees we have enriched not only his life but our nation, and at the same time have given impetus to his desire to achieve and excel, which means so much in the development of any country.

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CCF

Alistair McLeod Stewart

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Stewart (Winnipeg North):

May I ask

the hon. member a question?

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SC

Solon Earl Low

Social Credit

Mr. Low:

Yes.

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CCF

Alistair McLeod Stewart

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Stewart (Winnipeg North):

I approve of what the hon. member has said but I am wondering if he realizes that he is urging in this particular area a large measure of state subsidization?

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SC

Solon Earl Low

Social Credit

Mr. Low:

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I realize that, and that is exactly the point to which I am coming in this connection, but I think this is quite a different matter from what I read in connection with the first part of the resolution. What I read about in the first part of the resolution will affect comparatively few people and will give direct comfort and enjoyment to comparatively few. What I am talking about at this time is something that will help many people and we have accepted that principle, of course. The fact that one accepts the principle of subsidization for a purpose that is universal does not mean that one has also to accept the principle where the results will not be universal, and so I have to distinguish between them.

If I may proceed, Mr. Chairman, I would point out that I am not certain in my mind that it is necessary to set up the Canada

Council for the second purpose. The fact is that we already have institutions and mechanisms in the country with which to deal with this sort of thing, that is improvements in university education, improvements in capital equipment at the university and so on, without the establishment of a Canada Council. Is it necessary for us to multiply our institutions every time we try to help a worthy cause? I say that if the government had wanted to do so they could easily have made this money available to the universities and the provinces that are charged under our constitution with the responsibility of providing education for our people. It is not necessary to have a Canada Council to do that.

I would like to see this help given to the universities, municipalities and the provinces in order that they may carry their burdens. As the Leader of the Opposition so aptly said this morning, the Canada Council proposal is not necessary; this is only chipping away at the block, and a mighty small chip it is too. We will have to see to it that our provinces and municipalities are provided with a fairer share of the government's revenue, and when this is done they will look after education and will do it well. When this government takes that view of things and is seized with the importance of decentralization in these matters, then I am satisfied they will begin to see the truth ahead of them and will be able to find their way through the shoals of the difficulty we face. This resolution does not point the way and it will not provide a lasting solution and it is because I feel that way about it that I speak with some feeling.

I would like to say, in bringing my remarks to a close, I feel that this is not the time to implement the demand that has been made quite vocal by a few people in our country to set up the Canada Council and endow it as is suggested, but that I believe it would be wise for us to scrutinize most carefully the policy under which it will be set up. I agree with what the Prime Minister said this morning in the house in regard to having men and women of absolute integrity head the Canada Council. I do not think that we can be too careful about that. I believe that we must make certain that we place in those positions now men and women of complete honesty of purpose. Why do I say that? Because, Mr. Chairman, we have had such things as this set up before, perhaps not internally, but I notice in the Massey report that the writers of that report suggest that this Canada Council will be the national counterpart of UNESCO. May I suggest that the original purpose for which UNESCO was set up was perhaps praiseworthy, and its objectives were praiseworthy, but I am going

Canada Council

to say to you that men and women of dishonesty of purpose got hold of it and they have made use of it as an instrument of subversion and brainwashing. Some of the people who escaped from this country who were suspect in the field of communism found their way into UNESCO and were given places of importance and authority. May I point out that for this reason there sometimes are dangers in these concepts, dangers which we do not see or guard against. One of those dangers is that an instrument of this kind, although it can be an instrument of good, can be made, on the other hand, if it falls into the wrong hands, an instrument of evil. That is to say, we have to be very careful. I go along with the Prime Minister and others in saying that we must make certain if we are to go along with the Canada Council people that we see to it that people of absolute integrity and honesty of purpose, people free of any entanglements in these suspect movements, are put into those positions.

I want to see the bill and give it very careful study. I would issue a word of warning that we ought not to rush headlong into this thing without a careful study because when we go to the country the people are going to ask us why we rushed into this thing and put up $100 million for it and at the same time said that we could not help those people who have been living at or below the borderline cases which I have seen. I am going to reserve my decision as to whether or not I shall support the bill.

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CCF

Robert Ross (Roy) Knight

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Kniqht:

Mr. Chairman, on this matter I could not disagree more with my hon. friend to my left, the hon. member for Peace River, than I could disagree with anyone on this particular issue.

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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

We expected that from you.

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CCF

Robert Ross (Roy) Knight

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knight:

I take that as a compliment.

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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

You may look at it that

way, but I do not.

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CCF

Robert Ross (Roy) Knight

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knight:

May I continue after these interruptions. My hon. friend says that he is against the setting up of this Canada Council because for one thing it has been set up too soon. I had intended to say in opening my remarks that my criticism would be that it has been set up much too late.

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SC

Solon Earl Low

Social Credit

Mr. Low:

I said it was a matter of priorities.

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CCF

Robert Ross (Roy) Knight

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knight:

I submit that it should have been set up long ago. I am in complete agreement with the Social Credit leader when he says that he would like to see more assistance and more money given to the municipalities with which to carry on their

Canada Council

purposes, including the provision of educational facilities, but I am not at all convinced that, if the Canada Council is not set up, a corresponding amount of money will be given for that purpose. So I am prepared to accept the setting up of this Canada Council as a step in the right direction.

While I am talking about my hon. friend the leader of the Social Credit party I may as well take up this question of UNESCO which he has just mentioned. This UNESCO is not the bogey he seems to think it is. My hon. friends seem to be constantly worrying that they will find communists under the bed, and they are always looking for them.

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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

You do not have to look for them.

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CCF

Robert Ross (Roy) Knight

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knight:

I would suggest that if my hon. friend's assertion is right, and if some communists have got into UNESCO, as they got into other places, one of the ways to have seen that that would not happen was for Canada to have taken the proper action under the UNESCO charter. That charter is now ten years old and we were one of the original signatories. I believe that at the original meeting it was agreed or certainly it was understood when the people who signed that charter went home to their respective countries, that a national commission on UNESCO was going to be set up. For some strange reason that national commission was not set up.

One reason why I am in favour of the setting up of this Canada Council is that although the Prime Minister did not mention it this morning I understand he is following along the general lines of the Massey commission report. If he is, that would involve, not the setting up, as I have pleaded with the Prime Minister on many occasions to set up, of a national commission on UNESCO; it would mean that the Canada Council which he proposes to set up would be in effect, or an advisory committee to that council would be in effect, this national commission to UNESCO, something for which I have long pleaded. If I am mistaken the Prime Minister can correct me; if I am right he can corroborate what I have said.

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LIB

Louis Stephen St-Laurent (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. St. Laurent (Quebec East):

I just wish to clarify what the hon. gentleman is saying. If he will read the provisions with respect to the establishment of UNESCO he will find that this kind of body could not be a national commission of the kind envisaged as one of the alternatives under UNESCO, but many countries have convened national conferences prior to the UNESCO meetings. The bill will orovide that the government can delegate to

the council the responsibility for the convening of these conferences that do comply with the provisions of the UNESCO charter.

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CCF

Robert Ross (Roy) Knight

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knight:

I am glad to have that bit of information. I have given it as my opinion that Canada has not filled its commitments to UNESCO in order to take advantage of it. I think that has been a disadvantage, not only to the other national members of UNESCO but to Canada, which has been the chief loser. Since the setting up of UNESCO Canada has done very little to take part in the original scheme except to send year after year whenever conferences were held delegates of a sort. In saying that I cast no reflection upon the hon. member for Victoria. I have criticized the government for their choice of people to send to these conferences. Generally they have been civil servants connected with the Department of External Affairs, having their headquarters at Ottawa. They go to these conferences and return and the people in the rest of the country know nothing about it except when they see a notice in the newspaper saying that they have been there and have come back.

Now that, to me, was not the carrying out of the original intention. These people, on a national commission or on the Canada Council, should be people who are interested, first of all, in the matter in hand. They should be chosen on a geographical basis. They should be delegates like my hon. friend the member for Victoria B.C. (Mr. Fairey)- men of his type, not civil servants connected with any department of government, and by that method the UNESCO ideal-by which I mean not only the promotion of national culture but the promotion of culture and understanding throughout the world among educated people who have the responsibility for doing a lot of the thinking of the world- would thereby be promoted and strengthened. That is my idea of the function of UNESCO; it is an institution that may be and should be a society for the promotion of sound ideals, peace and understanding.

I was glad to hear the announcement that the Prime Minister has made. There were one or two things which my hon. friend from Peace River said in which I could not see any sense. He talked about Shakespeare, and indicated that there was a Shakespeare in the world without the aid of a Canada Council. Of course there was. But how many Shakespeares have we had? One every three or four hundred years, I suppose. My hon. friend did admit that Shakespeare did not simply come from nowhere; he said he had a patron who gave him an opportunity to achieve what he did and I suggest that

Canada Council

what the government is doing now is going to provide an opportunity for many unfound Shakespeares to be,-not Shakespeares, of course, but I think my meaning is fairly clear. In other words, if in the past these advantages of which I have been speaking have been for a privileged few; my plea is that they should now be extended to the many. That is the point I would like to make.

I am not going to say very much about the council itself because I do not know what is going to happen until I see the bill, but I am going on to express one or two general ideas on the subject. I had intended to defer these remarks until the bill was discussed, but since others have expressed opinions I will make them now. I said at the beginning of my speech that my original criticism would be that the government's action is not too soon but that it is too late. I do not mean by that that it is irrevocably too late; I do not mean it in the sense that any particular damage has been done. Nevertheless I do think we have been wasting an opportunity of doing something we should have done years ago. There has been no action. I expected action in 1955 when I had the good fortune-I do not know why they chose me-to attend a meeting together with some of the educators in this country at a special council; I think it was a council of the humanities held in' Ottawa early in 1955. There I heard one of the finest speeches I have ever heard the Prime Minister make and we all came out of the banquet held after that conference thinking: "We are going to get it; it's in the bag". I am not, of course, a mind reader, and I cannot ask the Prime Minister to disclose what was in his mind at the time, but we all felt it was in the Prime Minister's mind in 1955 to bring in some legislation similar to that which is being brought in now. Certain friends of mine, particularly in university circles in my city, were keenly disappointed that the speech from the throne that year contained generally almost as little as it does this year, and that there was in particular no mention in it of a Canada Council. However, it is in the speech from the throne this year, and I am glad of it.

I think the time has come when we should have some scheme of the kind proposed by the government. After all, we are a pioneer country. We have been in the earlier stages of our development and we have been concerned, probably of necessity, with material things; we had to dig the stones and cut the stumps, and I think we have perhaps failed to develop our human capabilities as efficiently as we have developed our material

and natural resources. For some reason Canada stands alone in this. We have shown a strange hesitation and diffidence in artistic and literary fields. In the early stages, at least, we have been imitative. Perhaps this is because we are a nation of immigrants; we have come here imbued with ideas which are connected with the countries from which we came.

And so our culture and the folklore of which one of my hon. friends has spoken has really been the culture of the French Canadian race which has been established so long on the banks of the St. Lawrence river. My hon. friend has paid tribute to that culture, and I do, too. But the rest of the country is not getting any benefit from it. It is an individual culture of people who meet together to enjoy their little dramatic performances or whatever else they arrange. I would like to see that sort of thing spread across this whole nation and if that is to be done we shall need some medium through which it can be spread.

Now we are learning, as the Prime Minister has said, that we must depend on ourselves. We have begun to realize that art and literature must draw upon the Canadian scene if we are to have a national culture of any distinctiveness, and surely the creation of this Canada Council will inspire, encourage and create a climate in which this kind of thing can take place.

Topic:   CANADA COUNCIL
Subtopic:   PROVISION FOR ENCOURAGEMENT OF THE ARTS, HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES
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January 18, 1957