June 28, 1956

PC

Owen C. Trainor

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Trainor:

I should like to ask the minister if that does not constitute an incentive for the provinces to make their contributions to individuals rather than to institutions?

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
Permalink
?

Murdo William Martin

Mr. Marlin:

Well, in some cases it may. I do not think it really will, because those institutions will continue to require assistance at the hands of the provinces for their maintenance. If the individuals in the institution need assistance they can be brought, as I have indicated, under the exception provided for in the agreement and in the act, and obtain assistance under this measure.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
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PC

Owen C. Trainor

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Trainor:

Is it not true, Mr. Chairman, that this assistance will be forthcoming from the federal government to the provinces provided any portion of the assistance given by the province is given to the individual rather than to the institution; it does not have to be all given to the institutions.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
Permalink
?

Murdo William Martin

Mr. Marlin:

According to the act.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
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CCF

Thomas Speakman Barnett

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Barneii:

I should like to raise one or two questions in regard to subclause 3 of clause 4 of the bill. One of my questions is in connection with homes for special care which, as I understand it, is defined in subclause 4 to cover the term as used in subclause 3. Included in that definition in subclause 4 is the term "nursing homes". Now, I should like to know just what the definition is and what distinction is going to be made as between nursing homes and convalescent hospitals in the various provinces. What is the distinction between a nursing home and

Unemployment Assistance convalescent hospital? Apparently a nursing home can be included but a convalescent hospital is excluded?

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
Permalink
?

Murdo William Martin

Mr. Marlin:

A convalescent hospital is

defined in the British Columbia hospitals act. It is something that is specifically included in the hospital coverage. In addition to that, there are places called nursing homes which are really homes for the destitute or indigents, people of that sort; people who normally would be requiring assistance, but not health care. This is not a health care provision. This is a welfare measure to provide assistance for the maintenance of people. People in convalescent homes are in a hospital as defined under the hospital insurance of British Columbia. They are provided for under that measure.

There are places in British Columbia, two that I know of in Vancouver, called nursing homes which are really places where aged people and people who have another kind of infirmity are maintained. They are not really in there for hospitalization purposes, but are in there for the keep that is provided for them by those who run the place, charitable organizations of one sort or another. People in this latter category are included in the act if they receive assistance for themselves from the province.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
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CCF

Thomas Speakman Barnett

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Barneif:

Is it not likely that people who are in the category which the minister described as being in these nursing homes are people who are apt to have to move back and forth between the category of people in nursing homes and those in convalescent hospitals; people who are aged and perhaps somewhat infirm?

One reason I raised this question is that earlier in the discussion of the bill the minister did make reference to the fact that in his opinion this measure was going to go a long way toward closing the remaining gaps in our social security legislation. As I understand it, the proposals for national health insurance are not going to cover convalescent or chronic hospitalization.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
Permalink
?

Murdo William Martin

Mr. Marlin:

Yes, it will cover chronic cases.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
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CCF

Thomas Speakman Barnett

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Barneii:

It will cover them?

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
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?

Murdo William Martin

Mr. Marlin:

That is part of the proposal.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
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CCF

Thomas Speakman Barnett

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Barneii:

It is part of the proposal?

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
Permalink
?

Murdo William Martin

Mr. Marlin:

Oh, yes.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
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CCF

Thomas Speakman Barnett

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Barneii:

I may be in error, because it appeared to me there was a very narrow distinction-

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
Permalink
?

Murdo William Martin

Mr. Marlin:

Chronic hospitals are covered.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
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CCF

Thomas Speakman Barnett

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Barneii:

-between nursing homes and chronic hospitals that look after people with chronic illnesses who may be needing care.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   UNEMPLOYMENT ASSISTANCE
Sub-subtopic:   PROVISION FOR FEDERAL CONTRIBUTIONS TO COSTS IN PROVINCES
Permalink

S492 HOUSE OF


Unemployment Assistance


LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin (Minister of National Health and Welfare)

Liberal

Mr. Martin:

Chronic hospitals are covered.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   S492 HOUSE OF
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PC

William Gourlay Blair

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Blair:

May I suggest to the minister that the term "nursing homes" requires further definition. These homes are springing up all over the country. I am aware of two of them in my own town. We have nursing homes that take in old people. They take in people who are on a prolonged recovery basis; they take in people who cannot get a room in a hospital but who require prolonged treatment. In the main these nursing homes are licensed by the Ontario department of health. Two of the qualifications are that they must have fire protection; they must have fire escapes, and must have registered nurses on duty at all times. They are commonly called nursing homes. They have a mixed variety of cases at all times. The definition is assuming another name, another position.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   S492 HOUSE OF
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LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin (Minister of National Health and Welfare)

Liberal

Mr. Martin:

In Ontario the nursing home is defined under appropriate legislation.

Topic:   EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Subtopic:   S492 HOUSE OF
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June 28, 1956