May 30, 1956

LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

Perhaps I can

save time by saying that now the heat of the moment is over I shall quickly withdraw.

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Subtopic:   INQUIRY AS TO FURTHER INTERIM SUPPLY
Sub-subtopic:   INDIAN AFFAIRS-INQUIRY AS TO CONFERENCE IN OTTAWA MAY 29
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SHIPPING

GREAT LAKES-LICENSING OF SMALL BOATS


On the orders of the day:


PC

Wallace Bickford (Wally) Nesbitt

Progressive Conservative

Mr. W. B. Nesbitt (Oxford):

Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Transport. In view of the news report over the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation news this morning which referred to the remarks of a senior official of the Department of Transport made before the great lakes search and rescue organization in Toronto last evening, is the government contemplating the licensing of small boats on

the great lakes and also contemplating any regulations that apply to the movements of such boats?

Topic:   SHIPPING
Subtopic:   GREAT LAKES-LICENSING OF SMALL BOATS
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LIB

George Carlyle Marler (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Hon. George C. Marler (Minister of Transport):

Mr. Speaker, the hon. gentleman was good enough to tell me that he proposed to ask this question. All I can say in reply is that I have been unable to obtain any report of the matter and I shall have to make inquiries.

Topic:   SHIPPING
Subtopic:   GREAT LAKES-LICENSING OF SMALL BOATS
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NATURAL RESOURCES

SASKATCHEWAN


On the orders of the day:


PC

Clayton Wesley Hodgson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. C. W. Hodgson (Victoria, Onl.):

Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys. Would the minister care to give the house any information he might have on the discovery and production of oil and gas in the province of Saskatchewan?

Topic:   NATURAL RESOURCES
Subtopic:   SASKATCHEWAN
Sub-subtopic:   OP GAS AND OIL
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LIB

George Prudham (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Liberal

Hon. George Prudham (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys):

Mr. Speaker, I think that question could be very well discussed when the estimates come before the committee in the very near future.

Topic:   NATURAL RESOURCES
Subtopic:   SASKATCHEWAN
Sub-subtopic:   OP GAS AND OIL
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PC

Clayton Wesley Hodgson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hodgson:

I guess you don't know.

Topic:   NATURAL RESOURCES
Subtopic:   SASKATCHEWAN
Sub-subtopic:   OP GAS AND OIL
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NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION

CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.


The house resumed, from Tuesday, May 29, consideration in committee of Bill No. 298, to establish the Northern Ontario Pipe Line Crown Corporation-Mr. Howe (Port Arthur) -Mr. Applewhaite in the chair. On clause 4-Body corporate.


LIB

Louis Stephen St-Laurent (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. St. Laurent (Quebec East):

Mr. Chairman

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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PC

J.-Wilfrid Dufresne

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Dufresne:

Mr. Chairman

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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LIB

Edward Turney Applewhaite (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

The hon. member for Dauphin. As this is the second time I seem to have got myself into an embarrassing position, perhaps I might be permitted to make a short statement to the committee. When the committee rose last night the hon. member for Dauphin had not completed the 30 minutes which is allotted to him. I do not know, and I am making no statement, whether or not he is entitled to pick it up now, but I expected that he would claim that right. I saw him first for the simple reason that I was looking for him. I called

Northern Ontario Pipe Line Corporation "the hon. member for Dauphin" and the hon. member will now address the committee.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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CCF

Frederick Samuel Zaplitny

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Zaplitny:

Mr. Chairman, in the limited time still at my disposal all I can do is to summarize the arguments I was making at ten o'clock last evening and to point out the position in which we find ourselves at the present time in this debate. I think it is amply clear to all fair-minded citizens that the only way in which the public interest of Canada can be safeguarded and the whole project of this Canadian trans-Canada pipe line kept under Canadian ownership is to have it constructed under public ownership. It is now perfectly clear that the government has only one excuse which they have given to this house and to the country for having set this deadline of June 7 and for the way in which they have handled this whole measure before this house and the committee, and that is their claim that that is the only way in which the pipe line can be built. Of course that is a phony excuse because if there has been any delay in commencing construction of this pipe line that delay lies squarely upon the shoulders of the government.

They have had this project under consideration for the last five years. They have been told, at least by members of this group and perhaps by others, that the proper thing to do if we are to have a national pipe line, as it has been described by the government itself, is for the government to proceed to construct the pipe line without waiting for a private company to dip into the public treasury and then own the pipe line.

I think every excuse which the government has brought forward as to why they must meet this deadline of June 7 is full of holes and will not hold water. Trans-Canada Pipe Lines Limited have been the recipients of all the favours from this government that one could dream up. The company has had several postponements when they were not able or were not inclined to meet deadlines which they themselves had agreed upon. Certainly this pipe line company does not have to hold a stick over the heads of the members of this house and of the government of this country by saying that either we put this through by June 7, or else. I think that is a shabby way in which to treat this parliament and it is a shabby way in which to carry on public business. Certainly the government should have the courage to say to Trans-Canada Pipe Lines and to all concerned, "We consider this to be a national project of great importance. We are going to let the members of this house give their full and mature deliberation to the question, and then, when we have

4464 HOUSE OF

Northern Ontario Pipe Line Corporation received the verdict of parliament, we shall proceed with the construction of this project."

Instead of that, they used this phony deadline and this excuse about the availability of pipe and so forth as a big stick to try to force members of the opposition, and incidentally the private members who support the government also; they are in exactly the same position as we are, they are gagged and bound, being forced to support a government on an issue about which they themselves are not very happy.

Thirdly, I would make this statement, that whether the government is successful in bulldozing this measure through parliament, in the manner in which they are attempting and have been attempting to do so, they have already lost on this issue. The people in the country are aroused and resentful. The people in the country are resentful not only of the fact that the government is asking this parliament to give them permission to dip into the public treasury to the extent of $130 million for the purpose of setting up a private monopoly but they are perhaps even more resentful of the fact that the government has the colossal nerve to come to this house and say, "We have made an agreement, which is not even part of the bill before us, we have made an agreement which can be changed and varied at the will of the government itself, without the wishes of parliament being consulted; and because we have made that agreement, then you who are the representatives of the people will have to be bound and gagged and, after a certain date, to have no more opinions to express."

The people of Canada are not going to stand for that and they are going to express their will in no uncertain terms when they have the opportunity to do so. I think the people of Canada also are resentful of the fact that the only role that has been played by the private members supporting the government and by my Social Credit friends to the left of us is the role of Murchison's minions and Tanner's tomboys.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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LIB

Louis Stephen St-Laurent (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Mr. St. Laurent (Quebec East):

Mr. Chairman, some hon. members who have spoken in committee have indicated that they did not fully understand what was really meant by the statement I made at the opening of the sitting on Monday about the time available for debate on the pipe-line bill when I used the words, "there will be all this week for it to be continued on its remaining stages."

The remaining stages of the bill were the consideration of all the clauses in committee and the third reading of the bill. In that connection I want to make it quite clear that it would have been possible, and it would

[Mr. Zaplitny.l

still be possible, for hon. members opposite by the simple expedient of postponing successively the consideration of the remaining clauses of the bill to bring the committee back, in a quite regular fashion, to the consideration of clause 1, if that is what they feel would be the most effective way to continue the debate.

Now, it must be apparent to all members of the committee that since the government did not give notice yesterday under standing order 33, we are not now in a position to bring on a vote on the third reading of the bill earlier than Monday evening, which is one day longer than the time I indicated on Monday last would be available. In other words, the opposition is now in a position to prolong the debate on the bill for one day of next week, whatever the government's wishes may be in the matter.

The government has been anxious from the moment this measure was proposed to give the opposition the maximum time consistent with the deadline the government has to meet to consider the bill in all its stages, of which consideration in committee of the whole is an important one. We had hoped to have the bill under consideration in committee last Wednesday, and at the close of Tuesday's sitting, hon. members will remember, the house had ordered it for consideration on Wednesday. And it was certainly no fault of the government that it was not considered on Wednesday afternoon.

But all that is past, and I want to tell the committee now that in order to increase the time available for the committee stage we, on this side, are prepared to sit this evening and to sit all day Saturday, if hon. members will agree unanimously to a special order of the house which would provide for the conclusion of the committee stage at the close of the sitting on Saturday and for the conclusion of the remaining stages of the bill at the close of the sitting on Monday next.

Such a procedure would provide another two days in committee stage, if hon. members opposite so desire.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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May 30, 1956