May 23, 1956

LIB

Louis-René Beaudoin (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

But I have no knowledge of these things at the moment. I cannot be expected to have precedents in my mind, the numerous precedents in every case. I think the suggestion I made a moment ago seems to be now generally acceptable, that the house allow me a few minutes to go and check these precedents that have been quoted, and in the meantime the debate will have to take place.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

What debate?

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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LIB

Louis-René Beaudoin (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

What do you suggest should take place; that we should suspend the house?

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

Mr. Speaker, I do not suggest that we suspend the house. I thought I made it clear that I think all hon. members will be glad to remain where they are while you consider the matter in the same way that you would consider it if you remained in the chair. You often take time to look at the books before you, and I expect you would want to take a little longer to look at other books. Nevertheless, while you are doing that the house remains more or less silent and awaits your decision.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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PC

Clayton Wesley Hodgson

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hodgson:

Why not dissolve the house and go to the country?

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming:

May I give one brief reference that I hope will assist you in coming to your conclusion on the point of order that has been raised. You have had a reference to the discussion that took place on March 15, 1948, on a similar motion. It will be recalled that after the motion was introduced by the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre the member of the house who followed him was

4268 HOUSE OF

Northern Ontario Pipe Line Corporation Mr. Ilsley, who was recognized as one of the leading authorities in the house on the rules of the house. Mr. Ilsley opened his remarks with these words, as recorded at page 2210 of Hansard:

I presume I may now speak to the motion of the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre. The hon. gentleman gave no notice; therefore I have been able to give it consideration only during the last few minutes.

Then he went on and made his statement, and about half a dozen other members of the house also participated in that debate.

The Minister of Trade and Commerce has just now made a reference to what occurred in the house on March 19, 1948, and has intimated to you that he gave notice.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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LIB

George James McIlraith

Liberal

Mr. Mcllrailh:

He did.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming:

He did not give notice. There was no formal notice at all. Hon. members who were in the house at that time will remember what happened. At that time the minister said-

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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LIB

Louis-René Beaudoin (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

May I interrupt to ask the hon. member for Kamloops, while I am listening to the hon. member for Eglinton, to bring me the Hansards in which are contained the previous references so I may be in a position to make a decision as soon as possible? Would the hon. member for Kamloops be good enough to send me the Hansardsl

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming:

I have the volume and I will pass it up to you.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

I will let you have mine, sir.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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LIB

James Joseph McCann (Minister of National Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. McCann:

You sit down.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
Permalink
PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming:

I have nearly finished. The minister said today that he had given notice. He had not given notice. There was no formal notice at all as required by the rules if this was an amendment that required notice. All that was said in the course of the debate on an earlier day was that the minister gave an oral undertaking to the house that he would introduce this motion when that stage was reached. That was no notice at all.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

You can give notice in the house. It has been done over and over again.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming:

That is not the notice we are talking about at all. The Minister of Citizenship and Immigration is far astray of the mark. If notice is required it is a formal notice as prescribed by the rules. It is not a mere statement in the course of somebody's remarks in the house-

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

There was already unanimous agreement on that occasion.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming:

-that he will make a proposal to the house. That is not the notice we are talking about at all. The Minister of Citizenship and Immigration is even more astray than he usually is.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

There was already unanimous agreement.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
Permalink
PC

Donald Methuen Fleming

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fleming:

In the light of the references that have been cited here today the integrity of those precedents in relation to the subject now under discussion is, in my submission, unchallengeable.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
Permalink
LIB

George James McIlraith

Liberal

Mr. Mcllrailh:

I should like to comment on one point raised by the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre. He referred to the motion made by me on April 16, 1948, as found at page 3041 of Hansard, and used that as a precedent to indicate that there was a debate on a motion for an instruction to the committee. I would point out to you, Mr. Speaker, that one member rose and started to speak, the hon. member for the then constituency of Muskoka-Ontario. During the course of his remarks it was pointed out to him that he was asking questions and he immediately resumed his seat and the house went into committee. Then he proceeded with his speech.

Topic:   NORTHERN ONTARIO PIPE LINE CORPORATION
Subtopic:   CONSTITUTION OF CROWN COMPANY TO CONSTRUCT PIPE LINE, MAKE SHORT-TERM LOANS, ETC.
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May 23, 1956