July 26, 1955

CCF

George Hugh Castleden

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Casileden:

If it is the rule of the house or the ruling of the chairman that we should not discuss the relevancy, or the basis upon which these two committees work in deciding the case. Probably I should say finally, with regard to our own little kangaroo court, that even on the evidence that was given, when the vote of the members was taken they voted 9 to 10 for granting the petition. That shows how close the decision was of the members who were sitting on the committee.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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LIB
CCF

George Hugh Castleden

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Casileden:

Why should we, without studying the case and giving the people of Canada the opportunity to see the kind of thing that is going on in this house? I am trying to protect the good name of parliament, and I am trying to stop this disgraceful thing that is going on. It can be stopped if the government will only set up a court.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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LIB

William Alfred Robinson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The Chairman:

Order. I rose practically simultaneously with the hon. member when he commenced his remarks, and made it very clear that we were not on this clause discussing matters of procedure. I made it very clear that I was going to ask him to observe strict relevancy on this clause. May I make it equally clear that I do not intend to rise again. The hon. member knows full well, and has been in the house long enough to recognize, the rule of relevancy. I think he knows his remarks are not relevant. I must impress upon him that it is necessary to speak with relevancy on this clause.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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CCF

George Hugh Castleden

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Casileden:

I should like to point out that I was merely replying to a question or a suggestion from the other side of the house. I shall return to the case, because I want to show why we should not oppose the granting of the petition in the Ferron case.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

Hear, hear; "should not

oppose it".

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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CCF

George Hugh Castleden

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Casileden:

Why we are going to oppose the granting of this petition.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

That is different.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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CCF

George Hugh Castleden

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Castleden:

Why we are going to oppose the granting of this petition, because of the conflicting evidence given in the Senate committee and before the committee of the House of Commons. In the House of Commons committee evidence was given by several of the witnesses to the effect that the co-respondent in this case was intoxicated at the time of his arrival on the day the offence was supposed to have been committed, some three or four years prior to the time the evidence was given. On page 19 of the evidence the following questions and answers appear:

Q. Would you tell the honourable senators the facts you have known about an adultery?

A. It was in August, 1951. We were out in St. Eustache sur le Lac for the summer.

By the Chairman (Senator Roebuck):

Q. That is, the family was there, the doctor, his wife and you?

A. That's right, and the little girl. There was one afternoon, a Saturday afternoon, Mrs. Ferron sent me out to the restaurant at Roger Beach to phone Dr. Ferron to see if he was coming out that night. At the time my brother had come to see me for the week end. Before we left she had given him a few drinks and he was drunk.

The evidence before our committee was that the man was drunk on his arrival. One of the witnesses said that.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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LIB

Russell Earl Reinke

Liberal

Mr. Reinke:

That is not what it says here. It says here that she gave him a few drinks and he was drunk. He could have been drunk for days. It is only your interpretation of it.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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CCF

George Hugh Castleden

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Castleden:

She said she had given him some drinks and he was drunk. That is what she said in the committee.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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LIB

Russell Earl Reinke

Liberal

Mr. Reinke:

It does not say that. It says she had given him a few drinks and he was drunk.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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CCF

George Hugh Castleden

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Castleden:

I would like to have your interpretation of the whole case; I am sure it would be very valuable. If my hon. friend turns to page 22 of the evidence he will find the following questions asked in crossexamination:

Q. What time did your brother arrive at the Ferron home?

A. He arrived early Saturday morning.

Q. Is it not true that he was intoxicated when he came there?

A. No, he was not.

Does that satisfy my hon. friend?

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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LIB
CCF

George Hugh Castleden

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Castleden:

Some said he was drunk on arrival. She said he was not drunk when he came there.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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LIB

Russell Earl Reinke

Liberal

Mr. Reinke:

The hon. member has not

shown by any evidence that he was drunk on arrival.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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CCF

George Hugh Castleden

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Casileden:

The evidence given in the committee was to the effect that he was drunk on arrival. Look at page 24 of the evidence.

Q. Would you mind saying what kind of treatment you were given by Dr. Ferron?

A. I am still being treated for my nerves.

Q. You had a child, did you?

A. No, I did not.

And again:

The Chairman (Senator Roebuck) : Are you

alleging any impropriety on the part of Dr. Ferron in this connection?

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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?

Mr. Pager@

No.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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LIB

William Alfred Robinson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The Chairman (Senator Roebuck):

Then I do not think we need to hear it. Does it affect the credibility of the witness?

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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?

Mr. Pager@

It affects the credibility of the witness, yes.

Topic:   CLAUDE FERRON
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July 26, 1955