July 13, 1955

LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

As much as the rest of what the hon. member has been saying.

Topic:   AGRICULTURE
Subtopic:   SUGGESTED POLICY FOR STABILIZATION OF INDUSTRY
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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

I am glad the hon. member raised that question. This whole discussion is brought on to give the minister a chance to tell us where the pamphlets are supporting these things, whether there are any, and to what extent they are disseminated. I will show you one you can readily see from your seats. We have one here in this document entitled "Leninism and Stalinism"; I do not know whether I can turn to it quickly or not. But anyone reading this would think Lenin was one of the greatest heroes in the world. And just look at the beautiful colours on the cover of this book; everything that will have some appeal.

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LIB

Ralph Osborne Campney (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Campney:

What is the date?

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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

It is dated 1951. I am drawing upon volumes 1 and 2 of 1951 and 1952. I know that is back a considerable distance, but the same type of man who prepared these is probably in the minister's department preparing them today. I have a strong suspicion that that is exactly so. If the minister finds out how to solve that problem-

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LIB

Edward Turney Applewhaite (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Order. It is my unpleasant duty to tell the hon. member that his 40 minutes have expired.

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Subtopic:   SUGGESTED POLICY FOR STABILIZATION OF INDUSTRY
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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Subtopic:   SUGGESTED POLICY FOR STABILIZATION OF INDUSTRY
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LIB

Edward Turney Applewhaite (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

I believe it is my duty at this time to say that it is the responsibility of the Chair to try to so administer the rules of the house that it will be possible to do the business of parliament within a reasonable time of, say, seven or eight months. I am afraid if the Chair continues to permit hon. members to get as far afield from the details of the estimates as has been done this evening we will not get through the business of this parliament within a reasonable time.

I say to the hon. member who has just taken his seat that I ask him, and others, to bear in mind that there are places in the parliamentary year where general speeches based upon matters of principle are fully in order. One occasion would be the debate in reply to the speech from the throne, and often there are other occasions when the departmental administration item is called in a particular department.

However, when we are dealing with the details of the estimates it is not in order to discuss a matter of that kind. The question before the house at the moment is whether or not a certain sum of money should be voted for certain purposes during the ensuing year. To the best of my ability, for the rest of this session I intend to be more efficient in holding the committee to a discussion of the item before it than perhaps I have been in the last few days.

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Subtopic:   SUGGESTED POLICY FOR STABILIZATION OF INDUSTRY
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LIB

Ralph Osborne Campney (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Campney:

May I be permitted to say just a word. I want to assure my hon. friend and members of this committee that I am just as concerned in connection with the publication Current Affairs as anyone else. I would not be a party to the promotion of communism in this publication.

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Subtopic:   SUGGESTED POLICY FOR STABILIZATION OF INDUSTRY
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?

An hon. Member:

Or permit it.

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LIB

Ralph Osborne Campney (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Campney:

Or permit it. Since I have been minister I have read almost all these articles before they were printed, and I take it from what the hon. gentleman has just said that he has been referring to issues as far back as 1951.

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SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

1951 and 1952.

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LIB

Ralph Osborne Campney (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Campney:

So far as my administration of the department is concerned I do not think I should be subject to too much criticism on that account. I should like also to point out that the money for the publications to which the hon. member has been referring was passed under the administrative vote at the beginning of my estimates. During the general debate the hon. member raised this point and I dealt with it. I do not want to seek to limit debate, but I should like to progress with my estimates if it is possible.

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Subtopic:   SUGGESTED POLICY FOR STABILIZATION OF INDUSTRY
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SC

Solon Earl Low

Social Credit

Mr. Low:

Could this discussion not be related to the items on page 340, publication of departmental reports and other material, $635,000, and films, displays, broadcasting, advertising and other informational materials, $785,000?

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LIB

Ralph Osborne Campney (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Campney:

The hon. member intimated the other day that he wanted to bring up something about publications, and I pointed out the item to which the hon. member has referred as being the item under which he could raise such a matter. I did not know at that time what he had in mind, but as a matter of fact the vote for the publications which are now under discussion was passed with the administrative vote at the beginning of the estimates.

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SC

Solon Earl Low

Social Credit

Mr. Low:

May we find out whether it is your ruling that such discussion is out of order, Mr. Chairman; because since I have had this volume in my hand I have discovered a number of interesting things about it and I might be tempted to say something. Nothing could possibly induce me to inflict myself upon the members of the committee for any length of time except a subject as important as that which I have seen already in this book. If I should take the floor I assure you that I shall be in order, and I shall take the wraps off some of the things that

Supply-National Defence are in this Current Affairs and show the members what they consist of.

I should just like to have your ruling. As I said, I do not want to be out of order; but if you rule that the subject under discussion is in order I should like to take a few minutes of the time of the committee if not tonight perhaps at some other time, to discuss some of the things that are actually in this and which I would want to quote.

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SC

Victor Quelch

Social Credit

Mr. Quelch:

Before you give your ruling I should like to remind you that the minister has stated that he did intimate to the hon. member for Lethbridge that this would be the item on which he could raise this matter. Apparently there was some misunderstanding at the time as to what publication was being referred to. In view of the fact that the minister did intimate to the hon. member for Lethbridge that this was the item under which to raise the point, I think in this instance he should be allowed to proceed.

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LIB

Edward Turney Applewhaite (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

I thought I had made it clear earlier this morning that there being an item covering various publications under each of the services, I had ruled as being in order the discussion of publications for the services, never mind which service was being discussed.

We are now discussing the Royal Canadian Air Force, and I am afraid I cannot rule otherwise than that a discussion of official publications dealing with or distributed to the air force would be in order under any of the three services provided the same publication goes to the three services. I do think we have heard one speech which was not as pertinent to the publications going to the troops as it should have been, by and large; but it was my fault for permitting it to continue.

I do think the discussion should remain strictly pertinent; but if it is material having to do with the Department of National Defence I would not think it was out of order. I do not think I should be called upon to express an opinion as to whether on a discussion of the 1955-56 estimates, references to publications of 1951 or 1952 are pertinent. I think some effort at least should be made to show that the same type of publication is still being published.

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Subtopic:   SUGGESTED POLICY FOR STABILIZATION OF INDUSTRY
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SC

Solon Earl Low

Social Credit

Mr. Low:

Perhaps the minister could tell us whether Current Affairs is still going out to the troops, whether this type of material is still being written and sent out for discussion, perhaps prepared by the same writers?

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Subtopic:   SUGGESTED POLICY FOR STABILIZATION OF INDUSTRY
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LIB

Ralph Osborne Campney (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Campney:

The publication is still being printed regularly and goes to the troops. As I said a few minutes ago, I endeavour to look

Supply-National Defence over the manuscripts before they are printed and have done so in most cases. So far as I know from such attention as I have been able to give to it, I think the material which has gone out in my time as minister has been satisfactory. I would not say I read every manuscript, but I do try to keep a close eye on them and will continue to do so.

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SC

Solon Earl Low

Social Credit

Mr. Low:

Before I say anything on these pamphlets or publications I should like a chance to look over some of the more recent ones. I must confess that I have not had a chance to examine these very carefully. If I were to speak on the basis of what I have found here I am afraid I would have to curtail my feelings quite seriously if I were to get through in 30 minutes. If you would not mind letting the item stand over until tomorrow so I could have a chance to go over some of the later issues of Current Affairs, then if I find that the minister is keeping his firm hand on them and there is no more of this sort of tripe I shall not speak at all. If I find there is some, I am afraid I shall have to follow up what the hon. member for Lethbridge has started.

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Subtopic:   SUGGESTED POLICY FOR STABILIZATION OF INDUSTRY
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July 13, 1955