July 12, 1955

CCF

Robert Ross (Roy) Knight

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knight:

Would the hon. member permit a question? I have spoken on the subject, but I can ask a question. I may say that I feel the questions that have already been asked show the interest there has been in the excellent speech the Leader of the Opposition has delivered. One of the functions of the Senate, as he saw it

and I think he emphasized it as the most important-was the protection of the rights of the provinces. I want to ask him if this protection is exercised in any other way except by such power of veto or amendment as the Senate has over Commons legislation? I ask this question in view of the statement by the hon. member for Vancouver East (Mr. Winch) that practically no amendment or veto power had been exercised by the Senate over the last 15 years.

Topic:   SENATE REFORM
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

I do not believe the lack of any veto power has been the result of anything but the change brought about by the cynical pledge which was demanded of those appointees from 1925 onward, to the effect that they would support any legislation brought forward by this government without consideration of their own convictions in relation to that legislation. I can only emphasize my own belief that this was an improper pledge, a cynical denial of the freedom of the individual within one of our parliamentary bodies. I would hope the reform that would take place would prevent any such course as was adopted at that time.

Topic:   SENATE REFORM
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CCF

Robert Ross (Roy) Knight

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knight:

In other words, in your opinion the provinces have ceased to have the protection to which they are entitled, for the reason you have stated?

Topic:   SENATE REFORM
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

Shall I put it this way. I do not think there is any convincing evidence since 1940 that their rights are adequately protected, and that is one of the reasons I would hope that Senate reform would assure the measure of protection which was intended at the time our constitution was drafted prior to confederation in 1867.

Topic:   SENATE REFORM
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LIB

Jean-François Pouliot

Liberal

Mr. Pouliot:

I was paired with the hon. member for Cape Breton South (Mr. Gillis). Had I voted I would have voted against the amendment.

Motion agreed to and the house went into committee, Mr. Robinson (Simcoe East) in the chair.

Topic:   SENATE REFORM
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

May I ask the Minister of Finance if it is firmly understood that one department will not be called?

Topic:   SENATE REFORM
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

Correct.

PRIVY COUNCIL Privy council office-

338. General administration, $474,595.

Item stands.

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT 449. Departmental administration, $1,560,620.

Item stands.

Progress reported.

Topic:   SENATE REFORM
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PRIVATE BILLS

REAL PERRAS


The house resumed, from Friday, July 1, consideration of the motion of Mr. Hunter for the second reading of Bill No. 484, for the relief of Real Perras.


CCF

Erhart Regier

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Erhart Regier (Burnaby-Coquitlam):

Mr. Speaker, this bill was before us some time ago, but if there are more urgent matters the government wishes to take up at this time I am prepared to not go ahead with the debate.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   REAL PERRAS
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Finance and Receiver General; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

I would appreciate that. Since we were in supply a moment ago, perhaps we could go back into committee of supply and continue with national defence.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   REAL PERRAS
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LIB

Louis-René Beaudoin (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Is there unanimous consent that the proposal of the hon. member for Burnaby-Coquitlam (Mr. Regier), which has been acceded to by the Minister of Finance (Mr. Harris), be accepted?

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   REAL PERRAS
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?

Some hon. Members:

Agreed.

Motion stands.

The house in committee of supply, Mr. Applewhaite in the chair.

DEPARTMENT OF NATIONAL DEFENCE Defence services-

236. To provide for the Canadian forces, the defence research board and other expenditures

relating to defence, including contributions toward the military costs of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization; to authorize expenditures in the current year out of the amount hereby provided, not exceeding $175,000,000, under the provisions of section 3 of the Defence Appropriation Act, 1950, and to provide that, notwithstanding subsection (3) of that section, where equipment or supplies acquired by the Canadian forces after March 31, 1930, are transferred, the estimated present value thereof shall, if the governor in council so directs, be credited to this vote instead of being paid into the special account mentioned in the said subsection (3), and when so credited may be expended for the purposes of the Canadian forces; and notwithstanding section 30 of the Financial Administration Act to authorize total commitments for the foregoing purposes of $4,269,726,540 regardless of the year in which such commitments will come in course of payment (of which it is estimated that $2,443,441,346 will come due for payment in future years), $1,729,285,194.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   REAL PERRAS
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LIB

Edward Turney Applewhaite (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

When the committee rose last night we were discussing Canadian army, militia, including Canadian officers' training corps, the details of which will be found on page 329.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   REAL PERRAS
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PC

John Borden Hamilton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Hamilton (York West):

Am I correct in understanding that the Royal Canadian army cadets would come under that item?

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   REAL PERRAS
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LIB

Edward Turney Applewhaite (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

There is a separate item.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   REAL PERRAS
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PC

Harry Oliver White

Progressive Conservative

Mr. White (Middlesex East):

I should like to ask the minister regarding the plans for the development and improvement at Wolseley barracks, London. Would he outline the new construction and installations which are planned, what the proposed expenditure will be for this year and the next four years, and how much is proposed to be spent during the fiscal year? Will he indicate how much will be spent during the next four years? Is it planned to acquire any further property adjacent to what is now known as Wolseley barracks in Carling Heights? Is it planned to increase the amount of space allotted for married quarters now or in the immediate future?

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   REAL PERRAS
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LIB

Ralph Osborne Campney (Minister of National Defence)

Liberal

Mr. Campney:

All these questions have to do with the Canadian army, regular, the estimates for which we have passed. I have no desire, however, to refuse information, but it will take some time to get the figures requested. As the hon. member knows we are establishing a home station at London which involves a great deal of construction, a large part of which is in progress and the remainder of which will be initiated in coming years. I have no objection to giving what figures I can, but it will take some little time to obtain them.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   REAL PERRAS
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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

Just before the committee rose I had asked the minister about the arrangements in effect at defence headquarters for the organization and training of the militia. The minister stated that General Letson had

been appointed recently as special officer in charge of militia, and that Colonel Buell had been named as well. Could I ask what qualifications of training and experience Colonel Buell has?

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS
Subtopic:   REAL PERRAS
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July 12, 1955