July 6, 1955

PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

Oh, I am sure of that. But the right hon. gentleman was the one who introduced another world. He introduced a world of unreality which did not have any relation to the bill. He told us about the transactions with the Avro company, the difficulties that were encountered there, the intervention of the government and the fact that it persuaded the parent company in Britain to appoint someone of the government's choice to run that operation. There is nothing in this act that was needed. None of these wide powers were called for, no order was passed under the act, nor was the threat of this act necessary. This government was the only real purchaser of those aircraft, and as a matter of fact the minister is ridiculing the house and the members of the house when he suggests to us that he needed any act of this kind to persuade them what to do. All he had to do was point out to them that otherwise the government was not prepared to deal with them, and they had no choice but to follow his request.

This government was the one taking the planes that were to be produced. In any event, in an operation involving a total of $122 million would it have been too much to have called the members of parliament together to deal with any emergency that might have arisen if that in fact had been necessary? I do not believe for a moment it would have been necessary, but if it had been we could have met. It would be much better if we did meet; and it would be much

Defence Production Act better if, for the purpose of that meeting, some of the aircraft that are used for less suitable purposes were employed for the purpose of bringing members of parliament to this house. I think that argument only emphasizes the unreality of the demands in connection with this act. The minister went on to say, as found at page 5377 of Hansard: If at this stage anyone knows what the argument against the bill is I am sure that I cannot be one of that number.

Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, that statement has been one of the things that has contributed to this long debate, because the minister has not understood what the objection is. He has failed to realize that the objection is that the government has not carried out what it said it would, that the government has not removed those powers which it said should not be continuing powers. Again I simply want to place the exact words of the minister on record, because they draw a picture of that invisible club which the minister likes to use and which cannot be placed on the table. With reference to the rights and the powers under this act, these were his words as recorded at page 5378:

That right is not being used formally at the moment, but it is being used informally.

I had thought, Mr. Speaker, that the rule of law suggested that people knew what they could do and what they could not do, but the minister tells us they do not even bother to define what the duties are. They just use this club informally and in a way, of course, that they believe will produce results. Then we were told about a highly complicated gun. Where on earth is there a single place that this act applies to that highly complicated gun? That gun is going to take years to develop. He referred also to guided missiles.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

Oh, they are all built and delivered; that gun.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

That gun is built and delivered?

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

Yes.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

Then of course the act is not necessary for that gun.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

Not now, no.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

So that was so much eyewash.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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PC

Gordon Knapman Fraser

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fraser (Peterborough):

That is just like the wheat.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

It is not necessary at the moment.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
Permalink
PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

We have at least eliminated that argument, but just what the argument was under those circumstances is difficult to imagine.

Defence Production Act

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

It is difficult to imagine what you are trying to prove today.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
Permalink
PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

I am-

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

You cannot even read the act.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

-in the most courteous manner possible, trying to meet the difficulty expressed by the Minister of Defence Production in these words:

If at this stage anyone knows what the argument against the bill is I am sure that I cannot be one of that number.

I am still trying to explain to the minister what is the argument against the bill.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

Still rolling out words.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

Well, the words do roll out.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

I am sure 75,000 words have rolled out since you started your speech.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
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PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

Oh, no, that is an underestimate. This is one of the rare occasions when the minister has not exaggerated figures. But in this particular case the fact is that the argument is necessary if the minister does not know what the objections are. My hope, even at this stage, is that there will be some on the other side who will have the same kind of change of opinion which has been indicated by the press in their examination of this subject.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
Permalink
LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

Read your ten editors again.

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
Permalink
PC

George Alexander Drew (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Drew:

What was that?

Topic:   DEFENCE PRODUCTION ACT
Subtopic:   AMENDMENTS RESPECTING SALARY OF MINISTER AND EXPIRY OF ACT
Permalink

July 6, 1955