February 2, 1955

PC

William Earl Rowe

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Rowe:

Mr. Speaker, that is a very bright remark.

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

It is a bright remark.

The Address-Mr. Rowe

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PC

William Earl Rowe

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Rowe:

Yes; it is brighter than some you have made but still it is not very bright. But, Mr. Speaker, we know that the dairymen of Ontario did not ask you to do that. That is why I mention the point that when you do not know where you are going, why do you not ask somebody? Did the dairymen or the cheese producers ask you to do this?

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

It was not Americans who asked us who want to ship cheese into the United States. We asked them for the right. We raised objection to the United States trying to keep it out and it was the New Zealanders who asked us for the right to send this cheese in here. If we had taken The same position with regard to them as the .Americans are accused of taking with regard to us, they would have made the same criticism of our actions as we make of the Americans.

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PC

William Earl Rowe

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Rowe:

Mr. Speaker, that is another interruption but it still does not add much :im the way of light, especially in view of the *fact that the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Howe) said they did not need to give them that right because he said they could send it in under the ordinary practice.

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

No ordinary duties kept it out, but we ask them to keep out cheese.

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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Pori Arthur):

Since my name has been brought into the discussion, Mr. Speaker, perhaps I might make a statement. The duty on cheese was the duty fixed under the British Empire preferential trade agreement in the period when the Conservative party was in power. That has never been changed since. Any suspension of shipments was due to requests from us to New Zealand to help us over an emergency. The reasons that created the emergency had passed and we reverted to the tariff imposed by the Bennett government in 1932.

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PC

William Earl Rowe

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Rowe:

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Trade and Commerce had better get his own customs indexes and books out and get them corrected because that is not the case with reference to the articles to which I have referred-mutton, lamb and meat products.

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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Pori Arthur):

You were talking about cheese.

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PC

William Earl Rowe

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Rowe:

Mr. Speaker, the whole picture is an example of the uncertainty of the fiscal policy or an example of the lack of fiscal policy of this government.

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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Pori Arthur):

You are dodging the question.

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PC

William Earl Rowe

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Rowe:

That is why today we are left

in this position, where the dairymen have just as much uncertainty as ever as to where they are going next year in production, or whether they should get rid of their milk cows and export them to the United States or some place else, in many cases. As the minister said the other day, the only hope he could give, so far as surpluses were concerned, is that the grass might be shorter next year than it was this year. In other words, if we have a big crop of grass, and if the grass grows strong next summer, we might have surpluses again. Our wheat situation is more or less in the same position. If the weather is good and if we have a bumper crop of wheat, the government has not offered any new policy with regard to what they are going to do with it. Not only should consideration be given to the agricultural industry-and I think it is an important one. I think the Minister of Agriculture should take into account the fact that Australia and New Zealand have the cheapest production of livestock products of almost any country in the world. The fact that they have 167 million sheep-just about 80 times as many as we have in Canada-gives one some idea as to what a threat that can be to the livestock industry in this country; the fact that on your minister's own statement yesterday we have now imported, in just the year past, at least three times as much cheese as we did the year before from New Zealand and Australia.

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

Three times as much lamb.

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PC

William Earl Rowe

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Rowe:

Three times as much lamb; that is right. Yet the minister thought it was not going to make much difference to the farmers who produce lamb. The farmers who had lamb to sell last week noticed that the price went down about 20 per cent of the total price, while the minister and I were talking about it here in parliament.

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LIB

James Garfield Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. Gardiner:

It was 22 cents yesterday and today.

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PC

William Earl Rowe

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Rowe:

It was 19 cents yesterday morning and there is still more coming. We cannot find out how much is coming but the report is that there is a large shipment coming.

I think the uncertainty as to a fiscal policy has done little to encourage agricultural production or to encourage employment. The proposals which have recently been made do little to help the gold industry of this country, which is another basic industry. Employment generally throughout this country has not

been improved by the importation either of cheaply produced agricultural or industrial products.

If I have done nothing else, I hope that I have intimated that our party stands for the development of our own resources here in our own country. I know that we shall hear out on the hustings the rumblings from those who still cling to the old free trade doctrine that that policy means high tariffs. I know we shall hear these people, for the purpose of convenience, saying that we are against the export of raw products. Let me say this, Mr. Speaker. Any child in school who knows anything at all about the history of this dominion knows that we have large quantities of raw products such as iron ore, forest products, minerals and other resources that we must sell to the world. We all know very well that there are many articles we should buy.

I am not going to repeat what I said last evening about the uncertainty of tariffs that are kept in effect by the fiscal policy of this government. The record shows exactly where they stand. We have unnecessary tariffs against products that we do not produce in Canada at all. I would therefore hope that some of my free-trade friends some day, in the quiet of one of their caucuses, would urge upon their government

if they are so greatly concerned about the consumer-to take some of the tariffs off the articles that the consumers want to buy but that we do not produce in Canada at all rather than urge them to take off tariffs or lower duties in order to encourage the importation into Canada of products that we are trying to sell and whose production is giving employment. It is just as plain and as simple as if one said that you have a tariff against what you want and you have freedom to import foreign employment and leave unemployment in this country. I think it is just about as simple as that.

No matter how this government argues, they have not changed this situation. No matter how much they argue that their trade policy is so broad and free that nobody should even state it or no matter how they argue that they are the farmers' friends, we know that, so far as the dairy industry is concerned, never before in the history of this country have we had such a large importation of substitutes for dairy products. Never before have we had as large a surplus of dairy products as we had at the beginning of this year. These facts stand clearly before the dairymen of this country.

I know what the government believes. They have said they do not believe we are

The Address-Mr. Rowe going to have any more importations; they hope not. Perhaps there will not be any for a while, but we do not know whether or not there is a boatload or a carload of lamb coming in now. I have asked the government if they would not give consideration to holding those lamb shipments off the market until the months when it would affect our market the least. I hope they will take that into consideration.

I realize that today the government is trying to broaden the markets for our products. But when we find our unfavourable trade balance increasing, when we find that our favourable trade balance of a couple of years ago has disappeared, when we see what is happening to these basic industries, then I believe we might be pardoned for drawing the attention of the government to these factors. We should not be labelled as apostles of gloom if we do not pat this government on the back every time we speak.

I am not an alarmist, Mr. Speaker, but I am quite concerned when I think about what is happening under these policies. If our economy were not supported by the defence program which demands so much production for destruction rather than production for distribution, I wonder what would happen. This government has been fortunate in that regard in so far as trade is concerned. It is true they have been faced with many problems, and I am in full agreement with the government's attitude today, as has been so well expressed by the hon. member for Prince Albert (Mr. Diefenbaker) when he said that we do not contribute anything by discussing certain matters at this critical moment.

It does often bother me, however, when after appeals have been made to the government to cut down some expenditures to ease the burden on industries and taxpayers generally, I see increases in civil expenditures. Then the government almost frightens us with talk about the terrible destruction with which we may be faced. We all share a common concern about that. Never have we in this house faced more critical days than we are facing now. In spite of that, we see that the largest reduction in expenditures lies in the area of defence expenditures. We have never at any time criticized defence expenditures as a general principle; in fact we have encouraged them. We have been in full agreement with the government about the necessity of being ready. It does seem strange that economy should be practised in our defence expenditures at a time when the situation is growing more tense and more

The Address-Mr. Rowe critical, while extravagance continues in civil expenditure which we have all been pleading with the government to reduce.

This great big government is today the silent partner of every enterprise in Canada. They take the first bite out of every bit of our people's profit; they take about 50 per cent of practically everything a corporation makes. They take a large percentage of every hour's endeavour in Canada. I believe it is highly desirable that they try to prepare for peace as well as build for war. In the meantime, if conditions continue as serious as they are, we must economize in our civil expenditures; economize everywhere we can, in order that we may have money to spend for our very survival. If we do not have to face that awful day, and we all pray that we will not have to do that, if we can avoid the heavy expenditure involved in a period of war, then we are going to have to have sound fiscal policies, sound taxation' policies as well as free enterprise, so that the people will be prepared to take the risk and build for peace and a higher standard of living. At that time we hope we can get back to normal, producing things for a good standard of living rather than implements of destruction.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I hope that I have not been unfair to the government because I realize they have heavy responsibilities and I notice they are growing more weary as the time passes.

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SC

Frederick George Hahn

Social Credit

Mr. F. G. J. Hahn (New Westminster):

fully realize that brevity is the soul of wit, Mr. Speaker. I am therefore very happy to say that I too shall try to be brief. I do not wish at this time to take up too much of the time of hon. members. However, I have one or two remarks that 1 think are of some importance. I certainly heard one observation the other day that was news to me, and that is that there is some timidity in the Liberal party. I found that in my good friend, the hon. member for Qu'Appelle (Mr. Mang), when he said that he was of a timid nature.

The other day the hon. member for Royal (Mr. Brooks) told us he was going to make some remarks which might make him unpopular, and then he went on to say something about the premier of British Columbia, who it appears was a pupil of the hon. member. I do not know why that should prove to be particularly unpopular with the people of British Columbia, because certainly the hon. member was an apt instructor. He was able to teach the premier that progress comes to those who search for a way to improve static or retrograde conditions. The premier of British Columbia took advantage of such excellent instruction and drifted away from that static or retrograde condition.

The hon. member for St. Mary (Mr. Dupuis) has indicated that while he may know a great deal about the province of Quebec, apparently he knows very little about the provinces of Alberta and British Columbia. In order that the hon. member may learn more about these provinces I am going to send him a blue pamphlet published by the Social Credit League of Alberta entitled "Do you know?". This tells about Alberta. Also a publication entitled "Two Years of Progress by Social Credit in British Columbia". I am sure these will prove most enlightening to the hon. member and his colleagues if they will just take the time to study them. I notice the hon. member is not in his place, so I shall send these to his office.

I would be remiss in my duty if I did not congratulate the mover (Mr. Leduc) and the seconder (Mr. Carrick) of the address in

The Address-Mr. Hahn reply to the speech from the throne. They did an excellent and commendable job, and deserve to be congratulated.

I have other congratulations to offer. I want to congratulate the government upon the announcement which was made by Senator Reid that the breakwater at White Rock would be extended. You may be sure that announcement was enthusiastically received by the people of my area. I have another item here upon which I want to congratulate the government. The article dealing with this is short and I should like to read it, as I think it will prove interesting to some people. This article appeared in the British Columbian of December 7 and reads: Tenders in January on Federal Building

Tenders for New Westminster's big new federal building-post office will be called in January, Bill Mott, former Liberal MP, told the Columbian today.

The bids originally were to be called this month, but Mr. Mott said he was advised by R. O. Campney, minister of defence, that steel work plans, being drawn in Vancouver, have been delayed for a month.

I want to congratulate the government upon making that formal announcement, and more particularly for seeing to it that this was done with such expedition. Then there is another item about which I should like to congratulate the government, having to do with a mail carrier service at North Surrey. In this connection I want to say that I place no blame on any minister, on any member of the civil service or anyone else; I blame only those parties who are, let us say, embroiled in making this announcement. This particular announcement appeared in the British Columbian of December 8 and reads:

Carrier Delivery for North Surrey Okayed

Federal post office officials in Ottawa have approved carrier delivery service for 2,918 homes and businesses in the North Surrey area.

Former member of parliament Bill Mott said today he learned through the Hon. Ralph Campney of the approval.

We are only too happy to have such approval given to this and other projects. The government should be commended for seeing to it that these things are done, and I might say well done under the circumstances. I should like also to congratulate the Minister of Public Works (Mr. Winters) upon the opening of the Cloverdale post office this year. This new post office is a credit to the community, and everyone is most appreciative. I might say that the senator opened it, and it was an auspicious opening. I thank the Minister of Public Works for asking me to attend, and I might add that I was there.

But the people of my area would be much happier if certain other things were done, apart from those covered by these particular announcements. I think I could lay down an

776 HOUSE OF

The Address

Mr. Hahn 11-point program which would make everybody in the community fairly happy. My first item concerns agriculture. The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Gardiner) is aware of the representations he has received. If he were to reinstate the feed allowances as they were previous to yesterday he would make a lot of farmers in my community very happy.

The Minister of Justice (Mr. Garson) would make us very happy if he would announce that the government was going to move the penitentiary away from New Westminster. The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Sinclair) would make many fishermen happy if he would only announce that fishing would continue as it was previously above the Pattullo bridge in New Westminster. The Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. Martin) could make the old age pensioners of British Columbia, as well as the provincial government, very happy by announcing that this government would assume a greater share of the expense of caring for our aged citizens.

The Minister of Public Works could help the thousands of people who are trying to add to their homes by revising the housing legislation so it would be possible for them to get assistance. The Minister of Public Works could make me doubly happy by inaugurating a new system of dredging in my area. The Minister of National Defence (Mr. Campney) could make me particularly happy by arranging to erect a new armoury building in New Westminster. The present building is a ramshackle affair and everybody in the city would be very happy to have a new building.

The Minister of Defence Production (Mr. Howe) could make the people in British Columbia very happy by announcing that this government would spend many more dollars in contracts in British Columbia than they are spending at the present time. The Minister of Northern Affairs and National Resources (Mr. Lesage) could make us happy by adopting the suggestion I made last year that a national park or national monument be created in the region in and around Point Roberts. The Minister of Transport (Mr. Marler) knows of the representations which have been made by myself and the airport officials at Langley and he could make us happy by carrying through the suggestions they make.

I shall be magnanimous. I think the important thing is to have things done. I believe that is necessary if Canada is to progress. I do not care who makes the announcements. I would even be quite happy if the

announcement that these things were being done was made by the hon. member for Kamloops (Mr. Fulton).

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An hon. Member:

Make it Kootenay East.

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SC

Frederick George Hahn

Social Credit

Mr. Hahn:

That is right. I have some

fault to find with the government; it is not all good. One fault I have to find is the government's policy toward provincial governments. A dominion-provincial conference is long past due. It should be realized that members of parliament are elected to manage national and international affairs, but it should not be forgotten that the people in the provinces elect the provincial governments as their representatives. They feel, and rightly so, that the provincial government should be held responsible to them, as the Liberal government has been held responsible to the people of all Canada in respect to dominion administration. They are answerable for their deeds in the same manner that we are. If British Columbia or Quebec, or any other province in Canada, passes legislation with which possibly we do not agree, then perhaps the reason is that it is just a bad egg from an old Liberal batch. There is only one way of curing it and I believe that is through a dominion-provincial conference.

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An hon. Member:

In a hotel room?

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February 2, 1955