June 16, 1954

LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I wonder whether I might crave the hon. gentleman's permission, without prejudicing the passing of this vote, to put that on Hansard the next time we are in committee, because I would not like to give any figures I might have now or any offhand information about figures of this kind because it is very important that if they are given they should be right.

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PC

Daniel Roland Michener

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Michener:

That is quite satisfactory, Mr. Chairman, if it is done in that way.

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PC
PC

Daniel Roland Michener

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Michener:

No; I shall be quite satisfied to have the information.

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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I should be glad to give it on the orders of the day.

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PC

Daniel Roland Michener

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Michener:

The information I want is the number of civil servants, in round figures for whose appointment the civil service commission is responsible, and the total payroll of that group of civil servants.

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LIB
PC

Daniel Roland Michener

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Michener:

Would the minister add the balance of the payroll?

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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I shall be very glad to do that.

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PC

George Randolph Pearkes

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Pearkes:

I will not delay the committee for more than a couple of minutes, but I do want the minister to draw to the attention of the commission-I think that is the right phrase-representations which have been made to me by a group of ex-service

Supply-Secretary of State men that they might be entitled to the veterans preference in the same way as other veterans who have served in the Canadian forces or who have served in the Imperial forces and had prior domicile in Canada are entitled to a preference. There are a number of men who served in commonwealth forces other than the Canadian forces in world war II who have come to Canada, who have lived in Canada for five years and have now taken out Canadian citizenship. Will the minister ask the commission to give consideration to the desirability or the possibility of granting that group of men, now that they have lived in this country for five years and have become Canadian citizens, the same veterans preference as the men who served in the Canadian forces?

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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I would rather doubt

wnether it would be competent for the civil service commission to do that. I would think that is something that would have to be done by parliament. The hon. gentleman has made his representations, and members of the committee have heard them, and I shall see that my colleagues are advised of them.

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CCF

Stanley Howard Knowles (Whip of the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation)

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Knowles:

There are some figures that I should like to ask the Secretary of State to obtain as well. If he wishes to deal with them in the same way as he suggested in reply to the hon. member for St. Paul's that would be satisfactory. He will find that on previous occasions I have asked for the break-down of civil servants into several groups: permanent, temporary, temporary-permanent and others. I wonder whether he can produce those figures for the present time, and also the same figures for say five years ago, in order to show what the trend is? And if at the same time he would give the total number of people employed by the government on a prevailing rate basis I would appreciate it.

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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I shall be glad to do the best I can. As far as these figures are concerned, I think the hon. gentleman knows that there would not be a strict compatibility any more because under the new set-up the main difference between permanents and temporaries as to whether they were under superannuation or not has been, if I may use a vulgarism, largely washed out. It would be very hard to draw the kind of line suggested, but in so far as it can be done, in so far as I can figure out any way to get the information, I will be glad to comply with my hon. friend's request.

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PC

Ellen Louks Fairclough

Progressive Conservative

Mrs. Fairclough:

I have one other matter. I realize that a question was placed on the

order paper earlier this session in regard to this. Can the Secretary of State tell us why it was necessary to issue a questionnaire to retired civil servants inquiring into particulars of any employment which they may have taken subsequent to their retirement. I know that this particular questionnaire caused a considerable amount of concern among some of these people. If they had served their time with the government and retired on superannuation my own opinion would be that it is none of their business whether they took subsequent employment or not.

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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill (Secretary of State of Canada)

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I am quite sure that no such questionnaire was issued by the civil service commission. It may be that is something that had something to do with the operation of the superannuation act. I shall be glad to draw the hon. lady's question to the attention of my colleague, the Minister of Finance, and suggest that he reply on his estimates.

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PC

Ellen Louks Fairclough

Progressive Conservative

Mrs. Fairclough:

I do apologize. Now that I have looked at it the second time I see that the questionnaire is headed "The Department of Finance".

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Item agreed to. Progress reported.


BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

I move that the house do now adjourn. Tomorrow we shall take the amendments to the Bank Act which were made in the Senate; then the resolution with respect to the Judges Act. I have reason to believe that hon. members opposite will find it convenient to pass it through all stages with little or no debate. Then we shall take the estimates of the departments of trade and commerce, veterans affairs, mines and technical surveys, legislation, fisheries and any others we may have time for.

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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

When shall we have the privilege of having the estimates of the Department of Citizenship and Immigration? We are all so extremely anxious to hear from the minister on that.

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June 16, 1954