March 19, 1954

LIB

William Alfred Robinson (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

The Chairman:

Order, please. After congratulating the hon. member for Greenwood upon sending forward a nicely typewritten amendment, I now find myself in difficulty, as the amendment is being changed. And may I point out another difficulty, in that subclause (a) ends with a semicolon and subclause (c) ends with a period. I think that should be taken into consideration.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

Yes. Technically, to comply with Your Honour's suggestion, perhaps we could take it clause by clause. The motion of my hon. friend would then be-

That subclause (a) of clause 5 of Bill 374 be amended by deleting the semicolon where it appears in line 23, and substituting a comma therefor, and adding thereafter the following words, "the effect of"

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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LIB

Walter Edward Harris (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Harris:

May I suggest that this clause be permitted to stand so that it may be drafted.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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PC

Edmund Davie Fulton

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Fulton:

Yes.

Clause stands.

Clauses 6 to 14 inclusive agreed to.

(Mr. Fulton.]

On clause 15-Diversion, etc.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

This is a new clause. May we have an explanation of the effect of it.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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LIB

John Horace Dickey (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Defence Production)

Liberal

Mr. Dickey:

Mr. Chairman, this clause is intended to make it an offence to do acts in Canada which have the effect of transshipping or diverting goods which have been exported from Canada to a particular destination under an export permit, and which do not arrive at that destination as their final destination but, because of the intervention of an act in Canada, the goods are finally delivered to a destination that would not have been approved as the final destination upon their leaving Canada. I am advised that this applies to imports which leave another country destined for Canada and which before reaching here are diverted to another destination. An example would be German ball bearings ordered in Germany for delivery in Canada which, at some intermediate point, are diverted from Canada to Poland, for example, Czechoslovakia or Hungary. It is to make illegal any act which is done in Canada to effect a purpose of that kind.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

It must be meant to cover the case where the goods do not actually reach Canada but by reason of action of some kind are diverted to another country before they arrive in Canada.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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LIB

John Horace Dickey (Parliamentary Assistant to the Minister of Defence Production)

Liberal

Mr. Dickey:

That is exactly the purpose.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

Can the parliamentary assistant give us an example of where that has happened?

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Pori Arihur):

I can do so. A

shipment of ball bearings was ordered in Germany for delivery in Canada. The import permit was issued. The shipment moved to Brussels in the ordinary way, and then instead of being shipped to Canada was shipped into Russia. The arrangement was made by a Canadian, and under the existing act we could not prosecute him.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

The Canadian arranged for the goods to be diverted to Russia?

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Pori Arihur):

That is right.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

Was he actually a resident of Canada or was he in Germany?

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Pori Arihur):

A resident of Canada.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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Clause agreed to. Clauses 16 and 17 agreed to. On clause 18-Aiding and abetting.


PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

This clause reads as follows:

No person shall knowingly Induce, aid or abet

or attempt to induce, aid or abet any person to violate a provision of this act or the regulations.

There was no such provision in the act which is being repealed by this particular bill. Here you are not only taking provision to punish a person who violates this legislation himself but you are punishing those who aid or abet, and the penalties under the legislation are very heavy. In fact, they are contained in clause 19 and they are being increased over the penalties which are now in the present act. Why is it necessary to go so far under what is in effect not criminal law, but a bill to regulate exports and imports. I doubt whether there is a similar drastic provision in any other bills of this particular kind.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

May I point out that these are very serious offences. They are offences designed to put military equipment in the hands of other countries. Anyone who makes it his business to go around and try to influence ordinary business deals in the way I have mentioned as affecting German ball bearings should be punished for doing so.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

That particular man would be punishable under the ordinary provisions of the act for breaking the act, but-

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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LIB

Clarence Decatur Howe (Minister of Defence Production; Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Mr. Howe (Port Arthur):

He would, now.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

-this section goes farther and says that anyone who induces, aids or abets, and in addition attempts to induce, aid or abet, shall be guilty of the same crime as the person who actually breaks the law. Surely it is not necessary to go that far.

Topic:   EXPORT AND IMPORT PERMITS ACT
Subtopic:   EXTENSION OF CONTROL OF STRATEGIC MATERIALS
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March 19, 1954